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Mississippi, Michigan Primaries

Tonight 2 states vote for their preferred candidates in the GOP and Dem races - Michigan and Mississippi.

Hilary Clinton is a heavy favorite to win Mississippi and also favored in Michigan. Trump is favored in both contests in the GOP race.

After tonight a 1/3 of delegates will have been chosen.

I suspect the Dem Mississippi race will be called when the polls close at 8 p.m. Michigan polls close at 9 and it might take longer.

More as results roll in.

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    So Nate Silver and statistics... (5.00 / 3) (#78)
    by Dadler on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 04:17:25 AM EST
    ...can't account for certain things. I doubt this will be the first time he's wrong with Sanders as the old south voting comes to an end. But I have no illusions, the establishment wants another Clinton, gross financial corruption and war hawkery of a sort that makes her no different than a neo-con aside. Of course, once again, I'll be all but forced to pull the lever for someone I neither respect no have any reason to believe will alter the course of anything in this nation. But, hey, you won't catch me dead in a "Feel The Bern" shirt or sporting any bumper-stickers. I'm voting on policy and record in the primary, nothing else. When the general comes around, that's when I pinch my nose, every single time. Phucking moronic system we keep tolerating. Sigh.

    Cmon (5.00 / 2) (#121)
    by CST on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 09:01:08 AM EST
    It's not the establishment.  It's literally the voters.

    I'm sorry that the Democratic primary voters didn't pick the candidate you wanted but you can't blame the DNC for that. This isn't coming down to superdelegates.

    Parent

    And superdelegates (none / 0) (#132)
    by CoralGables on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 09:48:45 AM EST
    for the most part are also people we've voted for.  Thus far, the voters and those we've already voted for want Clinton.

    Can't blame the people that are Trump and Sanders supporters though for trying to gin up their attack on that make believe monster "the establishment".

    Parent

    Everybody needs a boogeyman... (none / 0) (#137)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 10:10:49 AM EST
    we got "the establishment", you got "the revolution"...I'm comfortable with my choice, as I'm sure you are yours, Mr. Wall Street Gambling Establishment Man;)

    Parent
    My only boogeyman (none / 0) (#148)
    by CoralGables on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 10:50:52 AM EST
    is the 4:15am alarm on run days.

    I do gamble in some people's eyes, but even when placing a bet on ponies are puppies it was more an investment than gambling. Like John Cusack, I believe in The Sure Thing.

    Parent

    I don't doubt... (none / 0) (#157)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 11:19:06 AM EST
    you've got the pick-em skills to pay the bills.  

    The alarm clock don't scare me...I'm up before it everyday now anyway.  (What a drag it is getting old)  But the establishment I still do, they've established quite a rigged game to benefit themselves.  And that's not even getting into the law and order establishment.

    For others that fear the revolution that doesn't really exist, maybe they should just think of it as a re-establishment?  A New Deal, iow.

    Parent

    Not just tolerating... (none / 0) (#118)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 08:55:39 AM EST
    Also enabling, by voting and paying taxes.  Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    Though it was nice to see The Bern take another state, the longer he's in there the more some of our pet issues get pandered too.

    PS...Good to see ya commenting again, I've missed your voice.    

    Parent

    The Old South voting at an end? (none / 0) (#119)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 09:00:00 AM EST
    Not quite - Florida, North Carolina, Kentucky yet t9 come, along with "border states" Maryland, Missouri, and West Virginia.

    Parent
    The west is best (none / 0) (#141)
    by Dadler on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 10:20:33 AM EST
    It will matter and we know it. And landline polls mean INFINITELY less, as Michigan shows, the more you head west.

    Parent
    What I find amazing is that... (none / 0) (#139)
    by Dadler on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 10:19:11 AM EST
    ...Silver hasn't quite figured out the obvious. That as the cell phone generation expands into permanence each day, those landline polls become more and more meaningless ESPECIALLY when you head west. Peace out.

    Parent
    More Amazing (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by FlJoe on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 11:43:52 AM EST
    is the Republican polling in (MI) was very accurate with most of the aggregates being very close to the actual results.

    Given that many of these pollsters polled both sides I am suspecting that something is going on with the Democratic  voters that the pollsters do not understand(at least in MI).

    Parent

    See jb's post below (none / 0) (#179)
    by CoralGables on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 01:09:28 PM EST
    on how badly the pollsters on the Dem side missed in Mississippi. RCP avg was Clinton +44 but she won by +66

    Parent
    The Great Lakes region (none / 0) (#183)
    by christinep on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 01:48:07 PM EST
    And, in that area, I'm guessing that Michigan suffered more than most in the loss of manufacturing jobs and the anguish of worker displacement.  The extensive economic travail combined with anxiety about further displacement in view of the administration's trade position ... powerful stuff in and of itself, and even more so in an atmosphere of populism.  

    As the Michigan reality settled in last night and after a good sleep, it occurs that the Michigan upset is a lesson for the taking.  Along the lines of "what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger," this kind of lesson suggests the importance of a hard-fought primary season for the delegate leader.  Here: If the economic vulnerabilities for HRC in The Rustbelt were muddled before Michigan, yesterday brought an inescapable clarity ... and an opportunity.  Perhaps, HRC can take her economic message and the specific, real jobs program she has only started to lay out; and, address the so-called Rustbelt directly about real-time jobs in the real economy of today.  In so doing, she could take the lead as well in asking for details about any Sanders plan for Main Street Ohio.  It would be helpful for a number of potential voters to hear the specifics of the Ohio Main Street plan from both HRC and Sanders in debate or town hall or other address.

    An aside about Michigan voting dynamics: (!) A quick look indicates that the voter turnout for under-30 was comparatively high at the 20% level and with the same preference pattern holding in this state with many colleges.  (2) Some indication that the Independents voted as high as 70% (?) for Sanders in this open primary state ... in view of Trump's solidifying his frontrunner position last night, I am curious as to whether Independents et al will forego the Democratic primary in Ohio in order to vote for the "favorite son" Kasich should they want to keep Trump at bay, etc.?

    Lastly, it wouldn't be too wild an assumption that the various polling outfits might take extra care in this week's polling operations for March 15th primary contests.  Another round of egg-on-the-face is probably not a pollster's goal.

    Parent

    Agreed. (5.00 / 2) (#189)
    by KeysDan on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 03:19:45 PM EST
    Surely, today, Mrs. Clinton is getting a ton of advice on what to do.  My thinking is that she keep on doing what she has been doing. She is an excellent debater, something not often adequately  recognized. Sanders not so much, although he  sometimes appears as such but, in essence, adeptly defaults to his message. Cruz, on the Republican side, is often hailed as the great debater, something that has eluded most others, if the media is excluded.

     Perhaps, emphasize her experiences that have resulted in positive changes. I would encourage more boldness, but Mrs. Clinton would suffer attacks for being irresponsible.

     Michigan was a disappointment, for sure, but the differential between the two candidates was minimal, given over l million votes cast, made to look all the worse by the polling expectations.

      However, a win is a win, and she will no doubt acknowledge that as well as congratulate Senator Sanders.  This is a better approach than insisting on the results being a tie (as the Sanders campaign did for caucuses in Iowa) or discounting results that come from a Southern state( South Carolina). The Mississippi win seems to be glossed over.

      The issue, of course, is psychological, not number of delegates. Sanders has a renewed lease on his campaign and it is hoped that he uses it wisely and constructively.

      The Democratic nominee will soon be facing Trump.  Whomever is the Democratic nominee will be subjected to the Trump treatment. Mrs Clinton will get everything, but most is known and to be recycled with a Trumpian spin. Fortunately, most is of prurient curiosity--an attack likely to be no more successful than that tried by Ken Starr and his Republican cohorts (although, the spouse in more at fault as an enabler in Trump's eye).

    Bernie Sanders has not fully experienced the Trump iteration of swiftboating. Democratic socialism is not likely to be differentiated from Soviet Communism. And, I would not bank on voters this season to correct Trump. And, that is just for starters.

    Parent

    Cell phones are included almost every time now (none / 0) (#151)
    by FreakyBeaky on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 10:59:26 AM EST
    So say the methodologies.

    Parent
    Exit (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 09:24:36 AM EST
    polling from MI showed Bernie carrying up income whites with Hillary carrying minorities and blue collar workers.

    So does that mean Bernie's "movement" only appeals to upper income white people?

    The polls are laughable wrong. (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 09:45:27 AM EST
    Long live the Polls.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#133)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 09:50:50 AM EST
    it's all we've got to go on as far as demographics go. Have you got anything better?

    Parent
    Apples v oranges (none / 0) (#150)
    by FreakyBeaky on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 10:57:08 AM EST
    What people have already done is way easier to sample correctly. For one thing you don't have to try to predict who is going to show up cos they're there.

    Parent
    Yep (none / 0) (#154)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 11:16:06 AM EST
    Sanders beat the polls by 20 points in Michigan.

    Clinton beat the polls by 22 points in Mississippi.

    Parent

    HRC (4.50 / 2) (#186)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 02:58:59 PM EST
    Won Detroit 73-26, netting 57,000 votes per Nate Cohn.

    Parent
    I thought it was mostly (none / 0) (#127)
    by smott on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 09:26:03 AM EST
    Educated white liberal hetero males.

    Parent
    Somewhere else on this thread, (5.00 / 1) (#144)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 10:41:29 AM EST
    someone is calling Bernie's support a bunch of redneck gun nuts.

    When the going gets weird, find another poll.

    Parent

    If you mean my point, you misread (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by Towanda on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 11:05:36 AM EST
    it now -- although you agreed with it below.

    When I say that the region -- my region -- is hunting country, that does not mean that all gun owners are "redneck gun nuts" . . . your words, not mine. It does not even mean that most are "redneck gun nuts."  It does not even mean that a sizeable number are "redneck gun nuts."

    For example, you may recall that once (and future, I hope) Senator Feingold, next door to Michigan, is not for many gun-control measures.  

    News flash: He is not a redneck.  Nor is he a nut.

    I will attempt to be more clear for you about what I meant:  I wondered whether this issue was tested by the pollsters.  I think not, as I have not seen evidence of such a question in polling in Michigan -- and I have other evidence, as I also am being polled a lot now, with an upcoming primary, and never have had that question asked.

    And so, my point is that this issue may have played a part that was missed by pollsters.  And if so, that may explain their miss in Michigan -- and that may mean missing this and other regional issues and differences in upcoming primary states.

    Now, if your point is that all gun owners and hunters are "redneck gun nuts," that is incorrect.

    Or if your point is that I am against these folks, that also is wrong.  Some are family members, like yours.  Some are friends.  None are rednecks.  None is nuts.  

    And some are for more gun-control laws.  It's just not that simple in the Midwest, much as it may seem so to pollsters, too -- again, the point that I was making, in a discussion of why the polls were wrong about Michigan.

    Parent

    Thanks for clarifying what I was hinting at, (5.00 / 2) (#160)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 11:29:12 AM EST
    too sarcastically, I'm afraid.

    The single-issue votes are family members, friends, neighbors across the state.  They're not the dread "others."  They are us.

    Pollsters and herders want to pigeonhole everybody.  Pollsters have a reason, but why do people so enthusiastically participate in their own herding?


    Parent

    I've come across a striking number (none / 0) (#164)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 11:42:36 AM EST
    of people who are seemingly obsessed about abortion-abortion-abortion..

    People whom, you get the sense, would be very open to a progressive-christian, social Gospel message but for that one issue..

    Parent

    Attention to regional values has been (5.00 / 1) (#184)
    by christinep on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 02:09:45 PM EST
    obscured, I agree.  At home a few days ago, the position or role of guns in hunting territory came up in the context of our Colorado--which then led to remembering how the issue plays in central/northern Pennsylvania, my birthplace OR Montana, as an example of a state famed for hunting & fishing--and I then then wondered aloud about Michigan and hunting and the gun issue that you discuss.

    All politics is local--we are often advised. So, it does make sense to turn to the problems of Ohio Main Street as well as other Streets of the Midwest in the coming days.

    Parent

    I'm surprised nobody has mentioned this: (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by NYShooter on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 10:20:30 AM EST
    From the Detroit Free Press

    announced Sunday night,
    2 days before the primary.

    Chelsea Clinton, Flint mayor announce new jobs program

    Flint Mayor Karen Weaver and former first daughter Chelsea Clinton announced a new program Sunday -- the Flint WaterWorks initiative -- which will provide the city's youth with jobs to directly help families affected by the water crisis.

    According to Weaver, the Flint WaterWorks initiative was developed in partnership with Democratic presidential candidate Hillary Clinton, whose team helped the mayor establish the public-private partnership program.

    The initiative is being started with a $500,000 contribution from J.B, who happened to be the national cochair of Hillary Clinton's 2008 campaign, and, is a major contributor the The Clinton Foundation.

    (And then, swear to God, said with a straight face)

    "For my mother and for me, this is not political," Chelsea Clinton said at a news conference. "It is deeply personal and I think it should be personal to every American.
    ===============

    p.s. We've been wondering how the polls could have been so wrong. Could this, somehow, have triggered something? Blowback? Feeling they're being played?

    I don't know (5.00 / 1) (#142)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 10:28:38 AM EST
    Did anybody even know about it outside of Flint and Flint went heavily for Hillary.

    There seems to be a lot of theories about crossover voting with Republicans trying to push Sanders and then Dems thinking Hillary was going to win anyway going and voting for Trump. Each trying to push who they believe is the weakest candidate forward to the general election.

    Parent

    Well, it didn't sound to me (none / 0) (#143)
    by NYShooter on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 10:35:19 AM EST
    like they were trying to keep it secret

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#147)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 10:47:58 AM EST
    but was it widely publicized? I certainly have no idea.

    Parent
    Casey (5.00 / 1) (#203)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 04:33:46 PM EST
    my understanding is he is suing for 17 year olds to vote not 18 year olds.

    Nate Silver needs to retire. (3.00 / 2) (#61)
    by AX10 on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 11:29:01 PM EST
    He has gotten too much wrong.

    Nit sure what the 1 was for (5.00 / 1) (#111)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 08:33:50 AM EST
    I can't believe people keep acting like he knows what he is talking about.

    Parent
    I saw on (none / 0) (#1)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 05:42:46 PM EST
    CNN where people were going and voting for Trump who were Hillary supporters because they thought he would be easy for Hillary to beat.

    Foolhardy (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by FreakyBeaky on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 07:24:27 PM EST
    I wish they'd stop.

    Parent
    He will not be (none / 0) (#2)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 06:08:36 PM EST
    Noooo... Please don't tell me this! (none / 0) (#3)
    by Cashmere on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 06:11:51 PM EST
    Noooo... Please don't tell me this!  I hate open primaries.

    Parent
    Yeah, I (none / 0) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 06:54:31 PM EST
    do too. If Trump can't get enough Republicans to vote for him then that's his problem. He doesn't need any help from anybody else's voters.

    Parent
    Mississippi may be the very first state ... (none / 0) (#25)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 08:22:36 PM EST
    ... where Trump actually breaks through the 50% threshold to win an outright majority. It's still early, but he's at 50.7% with 14% of precincts having reported.

    Parent
    Well, maybe not. (none / 0) (#44)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:32:20 PM EST
    With 91% of precincts reporting, he has 47%.

    Parent
    I (none / 0) (#4)
    by FlJoe on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 06:21:24 PM EST
    am starting to get a feeling Rubio may be gone. It's starting to look like he will take a dismal fourth in MI and an equally dismal third in MS.

    I starting to think that the establishment would be willing to concede FL (where Rubio is iffy at best), but virtually assuring Kasich in Ohio and giving him or Cruz a chance to steal at least few districts in IL and MO next Tuesday.

    If only Bernie (4.20 / 5) (#5)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 06:32:05 PM EST
    Would do the same.   I just heard Brian Williams ask a Hillary supporter if she was "prepared for a long campaign against a well financed opponent"

    What is the friggin point?  Seriously.  Bernie, if you had a point you made it.  Good bye.  Do yourself and all of us a favor and just go away.  From here on you accomplishing exactly one thing, damaging the democratic nominee.

    Parent

    If By Damaging... (5.00 / 2) (#163)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 11:38:54 AM EST
    ... you mean pointing out her obvious weaknesses, then sure.  The thing is Clinton could have avoided having any real competition by taking one stand in particular, WS.  You grip is with her, not the person/people who pointed it out and decided the issue is/was important enough to choose someone else.

    Sanders is not Trump, people aren't voting for Sanders because he is charismatic.  They are voting for him over one issue, possibly two.

    Not sure how Sanders stands hurts Hillary in the general unless you think people are going to go to Trump over WS and health care.  I do not.

    There is only one way HRC loses, democrats stay home, and I know that will be everyone's fault but the person actually responsible.

    Parent

    Here's (5.00 / 3) (#168)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 12:00:50 PM EST
    the problem I have. It seems that Sanders supporters are such gentle snowflakes that you can't point out his obvious baggage without them having a mental breakdown and a temper tantrum. And believe me he has it in spades. The GOP will have a field day with him. But it's okay to point out Hillary's weaknesses. And we're supposed to just take it and then show up to vote for Bernie in the end if he's the nominee. That is what is tiresome.

    Parent
    Funny I have yet to hear anyone (5.00 / 1) (#170)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 12:26:27 PM EST
    here ONCE respond to criticism of Sanders by  invoked "hate", "SDS", "the gals" (did I mention hate? pure, unadulterated hate?) and other hysterical, non-explanatory formulations.

    Those are what? Well-reasoned responses to criticism?

    Parent

    I'm not (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 12:36:55 PM EST
    talking about here. I'm talking about other places like twitter. His big baggage has shown up there and it's a complete meltdown and screaming that Hillary is mean and they won't vote for her pretty much admitting that his baggage is deadly. I mean when your own supporters can't handle Bernie's past how do you think it's going to play in a general election?

    Parent
    He's aint gettin' the nom anyway.. (5.00 / 1) (#176)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 01:04:22 PM EST
    not gonna happen; no how, no way.

    He's just a smelting furnace and a wetstone, and a pretty good one, I might add, for what Hillary is going to have to deal with further on down the road.

    I hope she's up for it, because the Swift Boating, debate-notes-stealing, October Surprising, Ken Starr, Watergate crowd we all know plays for keeps..

    I'm talking AN-Y THING to win.

    Parent

    That is the Thing... (none / 0) (#194)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 03:47:10 PM EST
    ... I can't figure out.  All I have been reading for a month is how Sanders supporters are this and that, yet when it's obvious Clinton will win the nomination, the attacks on haven't stopped.

    I get the feeling some folks are laying the ground just in case people aren't as starry eyed as most here and she loses to Trump.  It will be Sanders and his rabid supporters to blame.

    There is no other reason to keep after them with such animosity when the suppose plan is to get them to vote D in November.

    Parent

    The attacks on who haven't stopped? (5.00 / 1) (#195)
    by smott on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 03:52:44 PM EST
    Sanders supporters?
    Clinton?....sorry not sure what you mean.


    Parent
    Which pretty much shows (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by CoralGables on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 04:14:11 PM EST
    that the original comment has no merit.

    Parent
    And Sanders... (5.00 / 2) (#175)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 12:53:07 PM EST
    ...made them made them that way ?  That he controls the minds of grown adults to such a degree that they will be susceptible to some sort of mind control from Trump.  But would be solid HRC voters had Sanders not run.

    Good GD gravy.

    Don't mistake this for agreeing with you about people who support sanders, just pointing out how ridiculous the argument is.  Or rather how obvious you attempt to take a swipe at Sander is.  But I do find the humor in you implying 'they' are nuts with your own, rather nutty, theory.

    How has Sanders changed the number of votes HRC will get in the general ?  Please try and stay in this dimension.

    Parent

    Well (5.00 / 1) (#178)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 01:08:49 PM EST
    considering a lot of these are children has a lot to do with it. Remember boy's brains don't fully mature until they are 25 years old. And I say that as a mother of a 23 year old.

    I never said anything about mind control. I just merely mentioned that their behavior is that of snowflakes. However Bernie encourages that behavior with his passive aggressive behavior. He'll say something and if he gets hit back he whines.

    Parent

    Sure.. (5.00 / 1) (#181)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 01:25:00 PM EST
    Sander's supporters are not only physically and psychologically immature and hateful and misogynistic, they're finally just plain irretrievably stupid and endlessly suggestable.

    That's how you bring the feuding cousins together..Oy.

    Parent

    Whoa, Ga6th, I think you are (5.00 / 1) (#201)
    by caseyOR on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 04:31:59 PM EST
    off-base there. We resolved the issue of "are 18 year olds mature enough to vote?" decades ago. While it is true that brains are not completely and fully developed until 25, people between 18-25 are not morons. They tend to be fully functioning people making their way in the world.

    Their decisions may not always be the decisions I would make, but your decisions are probably not always the decisions I would make.

    And let us not forget that Clinton has many 18-25 year old supporters. Are you suggesting that Clinton's supporters are incapable of a well-reasoned decision?

    And, finally, bad behavior crosses all age groups. Obnoxiousness is not the special province of young Bernie supporters. As an example I draw your attention to Mr. Trump's supporters. I will take Bernie's admirers over Trump's any day.

    Parent

    Oooo (none / 0) (#6)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 06:44:49 PM EST
    First 1 of the night.  

    Parent
    I figured (none / 0) (#9)
    by FlJoe on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 07:00:06 PM EST
    you were cruising for a bruising with that one.

    Parent
    I've been missing the 1s (none / 0) (#12)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 07:03:42 PM EST
    Since the Bernistas went south

    Parent
    I don't know (none / 0) (#8)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 06:58:27 PM EST
    who is giving him money but however no matter how much money he seems to raise it doesn't change things for him.

    Parent
    Maybe the downrater (none / 0) (#11)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 07:02:11 PM EST
    Would like to explain what, exactly, the point is.   He's not going to be the nominee.  So what is the point?

    The just called Mississippi for Hillary.  She is going to win Michigan.  Bernie didn't just step in it in that last debate he sat and rolled in it.

    Parent

    i think (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by pitachips on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 09:41:32 PM EST
    it's a terrible idea to push Sanders this early for a few reasons:

    1. His supporters represent a large portion of the party. I think pushing them out runs the risk that the party is not unified when it matters, during the general election. I don't see it as any different then when Hillary supporters felt disrespected at the suggestion, made by many Democrats, that she should have dropped out of the race when it became inevitable that the Delegate math was against her.

    2. I think, as a liberal, that the issues of income inequality and the power that corporations exercise over our politics are important enough that we should encourage as much coverage of those issue as possible. I don't think anyone can argue

    3. I think, as a liberal, that it is important to have a president that is fair but tough on the financial industry. Even if Sanders has no chance of winning the nomination, i think its a laudable goal to act as a check against any possible future effort by Hillary's campaign, or its supporters, to moderate previous positions on the issue.

    4. At the end of the day, all politicians, including Democrats, are only tough on certain issues (corporate power for instance) when they know there will be a political cost otherwise. It's the whole "pols will be pols" thing.  


    Parent
    IMO (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 09:44:46 PM EST
    the problem I have with Bernie staying in is because he can't seem to stay away from making condescending remarks using right wing tropes. I mean if he can't do better than that and is going to go all condescending Nader then why?

    I don't think he should be shoved out but before long it's going to be obvious that he doesn't have a chance because each week he keeps falling further and further behind.

    Parent

    I know what you mean but with (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by ruffian on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:59:39 PM EST
    Trumpapalooza going on , I don't think anyone is listening to the Dems much anyway. The general is gong to be a mud bath anyway.

    I don't mind if he stays in but no one is going to make me watch another one of those debates. I voted already.

    Parent

    Hillary always can take care of herself ... (5.00 / 2) (#185)
    by christinep on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 02:31:25 PM EST
    she knows how to take it and how to dish it out with the best (or worst) of political opponents.  Experience helps :)  

    A beginning nagging concern for me has to do with timing and resource-draining:  To date, I agree with those who say that the primary process with a fairly strong competitor (especially suited for the populist present) is strengthening her campaign.  Her delivery is clearer, speech stronger, etc.  An example of adaptation lessons delivered in the process could be seen in Michigan yesterday; and, whatever the campaign takeaway from the blind-side, her resilience and ability to refine her message are best tested earlier than up against a Trump in the Rustbelt later in the General Election campaign.

     YET, the advantages could well shift to a $$$$-draining and more emotional primary dynamic down-the-road if lack of resolution drags into June.  I don't know what the timing should be, obviously; I only suspect it could become troublesome if the Repubs wrap up their situation before we do and if the Sanders supporters become even more invested in their candidate than they already are.  There will come a time to start unifying.

    Parent

    i think it's fair to say (none / 0) (#53)
    by pitachips on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:55:06 PM EST
    During a heated primary each side is going to be convinced that they're beating treated unfairly by the other.

    I obviously agree re: the delegate math. At some point Bernie is going to wrap things up - and I'm sure he will be as strong an advocate for Hillary as she was for Obama in 08.

    Parent

    Are you? (none / 0) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:59:05 PM EST
    I hope you are correct.

    Parent
    No doubt (none / 0) (#102)
    by pitachips on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 08:16:33 AM EST
    I haven't seen anything that would suggest he'd be OK with being a spoiler.

    Parent
    Hillary (none / 0) (#79)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 06:02:16 AM EST
    will probably retire from politics and not campaign for Bernie but yes, I know the little ladies are just supposed to do what they are told to do. Or that is what you seem to expect.

    If Bernie is the nominee expect him to last about one month into the general election before the GOP completely destroys him.

    Parent

    I didn't ask why (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 09:58:58 PM EST
    He should be "pushed out" I asked why is he still running.  His issues are as central to the campaign as they will ever be.  
    He WILL NOT be the nominee.   Why is he continuing to make the rights arguments against the person who absolutely IS going to be the democratic nominee.

    His supporters hate Hillary.  We get that.  Is there another reason.

    Parent

    Enough with the wild-swinging (none / 0) (#66)
    by jondee on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 11:40:01 PM EST
    generalizations..

    One other big reason leaps immediately to mind: the remembrance of what happened in 2007-2008, the still-resonant influence and message of the OWS movement, and what is perceived by many as a tepid, tinker-around-the-edges attitude on the part of Clinton and her cronies toward the financial sector.

    Is that more than one reason?

    This where jb would "1" me right now if she were online. In the spirit of respect for a democratic plurality of voices..

    Parent

    Yes! I would like to see more direct suggestions (5.00 / 3) (#82)
    by ruffian on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 06:38:43 AM EST
    of help for people where it still hurts. One of the conditions a lot of us, and many liberal economists, wanted on TARP was more help for homeowners that had their life savings demolished by the falling home prices after the crash. Some relief from the underwater mortgage situation was seen as 'moral hazard' by the pols.  These people that were not helped at all by any of the recovery measures are the people that are the angriest now. They managed to keep their jobs and not get foreclosed on, but are left with a mountain of debt and no way out.

    It is not too late, and well past time, for either candidate to address that. Universal health care or free college is not going to address that situation for most people. Coming up on the FL primary would be a great time to talk about it.

    Parent

    Trillions in damage, Billions in help (5.00 / 1) (#98)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 07:49:59 AM EST
    Decoding Hillary: The Truth Vs. What She Claims About Her Wall St. Record (re Clinton's statement at the Michigan Debate)

    "I went to Wall Street when I was a United States senator. I told them they were wrecking the economy. I asked for a moratorium on foreclosures. I asked that we do more to try to prevent what I worried was going to happen. I also called for closing loopholes including the carried interest loophole. I also called for changes in CEO pay. I have a record."

    What is she really saying? As a senator from New York I have a personal relationship with these guys. I can talk sense to them. They will listen to me.

    To Hillary this is playing a strong hand. To everyone else it shows weakness and a startling naïveté about power.

    For starters, they obviously blew her off. She got nothing. We got nothing.

    Hillary is admitting that neither Wall Street nor her colleagues in the Senate listened to her. In short, she was incredibly ineffectual when it came to reining in Wall Street. And this comes from someone who claims she can get things done in the real world.



    Parent
    I'm not talking about reigning in Wall Street (none / 0) (#117)
    by ruffian on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 08:55:15 AM EST
    Though of course that is important to prevent another disaster. And Sanders was no more effective than Clinton.

    I'm talking about after the crash when TARP was in place and the stimulus was being written. Many people were advocating for a 'cram down' on mortgages as part of HARP or HAMP or whatever it was. But it never happened. Could Hillary have advocated harder from her position as SoS? Sure. But a strong Senate advocate would have been nice too.

    But, as I said, it is not too late. Middle class people know the rich got helped, and they suspect the poor and immigrants got helped more than they actually did. But they know NOTHING was done to help them out of the hole the falsely inflated home prices dug them into.

    Of course there is anger - let's address it directly. Middle class working people want what they suspect other people got. And in some cases by 'other people' they mean minorities and immigrants.

    Parent

    Never gonna happen. (5.00 / 2) (#129)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 09:37:13 AM EST
    A "cram down" would have directly counteracted the intended effect of TARP, which propped up the banking system, and Bernanke's long, long stimulus.  It was never gonna happen.  It was never more than a talking point for pols.

    The "Middle Class" has to be redefined, btw.  According to the latest PEW analysis, those numbered in upper and lower income bands taken together now outnumber those in the middle..

    Home prices have rebounded here in Michigan, but not to where they started.  
    Net worth of middle incomers has been knocked all the way back to 1983 levels, where according to PEW, it remains.  The upper income strata managed, even after the great recession, to double.

    Parent

    It certainly never did happen (none / 0) (#145)
    by ruffian on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 10:43:49 AM EST
    I thought I was the pessimistic one around here! Would you say it is more or less likely than single payer health care and free college?

    Parent
    No, she couldn't have (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 10:56:48 AM EST
    Could Hillary have advocated harder from her position as SoS? Sure.

    And she wouldn't have.   It would have been totally inappropriate.

    Parent

    Before she was tapped for Sec of State (5.00 / 2) (#100)
    by sallywally on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 08:03:07 AM EST
    I swear Hillary was talking about how something  needed to be done to help the homeowners. I specifically noticed this because it seemed no one else was suggesting it.

    Parent
    BTD wrote about everyone (5.00 / 1) (#103)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 08:17:40 AM EST
    Who was suggesting real relief for mortgage holders. I remember solutions compared to those applied by FDR were suggested by some leaders and I do remember Clinton being one of them.

    Parent
    Ni, I wouldn't (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 07:09:03 AM EST
    But nice of you to be so obsessed with me to mention me, when I've barely been on for days.

    Where I WOULD give you a 1 is for being a troll in general.

    But, nice try.

    Parent

    And this (5.00 / 2) (#36)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:03:59 PM EST

     think its a laudable goal to act as a check against any possible future effort by Hillary's campaign, or its supporters, to moderate previous positions on the issue.

    Some times I think you guys forget who we are running against.

    Let me be clear.  Bernie is not an electoral threat to Hillary.  His "presence" is assuring nothing but the rights arguments will be made for them.   This is now a vanity campaign.  

    Parent

    the right (none / 0) (#57)
    by pitachips on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:59:51 PM EST
    will make those arguments either way. Hillary has been on the national political stage for more than 20 years - the right's obsession with her has never lessened. And once the general election begins, our party will be unified and I think win pretty handily.

    Parent
    Somehow you've missed that Sanders (none / 0) (#73)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 12:27:33 AM EST
    has consistently been ripping the Right a gaping new orifice during every one of his public appearences in the last few months. A virtual all-out frontal assault..

    If people are in fact lending any creedence to his words, how could he possibly be hurting Hillary more than the Republicans?

    Parent

    Yeah (none / 0) (#14)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 07:22:45 PM EST
    that debate was especially bad for someone who routinely has bad debates. I don't think there are any favorable states for him for weeks. I know next week I don't think there's anything he will win.

    Parent
    He is currently (none / 0) (#16)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 07:26:12 PM EST
    Ahead in Michigan incredibly.  If he eeks out a win it won't change a thing.

    I guess all that furious cable news spinning and water muddying on the auto bailout vote worked.

    Parent

    Virtually (none / 0) (#18)
    by FlJoe on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 07:34:34 PM EST
    nothing has been counted from Wayne county yet AKA Detroit.

    Parent
    It's still early in Michigan (9:20 EST). (none / 0) (#24)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 08:19:24 PM EST
    And with about 25% of precincts reporting, Bernie Sanders enjoys a 3-pt. lead, 51-47%. But results from Wayne County and Detroit have apparently yet to be tallied, so I'm hard-pressed to see how that lead holds up. Still, if Sanders somehow pulls it off, it would be an impressive victory, even if it ends up insignificant in terms of actual delegate allocation.

    Parent
    With 81% of precincts reporting, ... (none / 0) (#38)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:14:20 PM EST
    ... Bernie Sanders' roughly 3-pt. margin in Michigan has been steadily holding up. It's now going to take some rather outsized margins reporting from outstanding precincts in the Detroit area for Hillary Clinton to pull this one out. I have to admit, I'm surprised. It's isn't going to net him all that much in terms of delegate margins but hey, a win's a win. Congratulations to the Sanders campaign, if the present trend holds.

    Parent
    I voted around 11 AM. (none / 0) (#39)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:17:09 PM EST
    8 voters in line.  2 were brand new registrations.

    Parent
    Sanders is the projected winner in Michigan. (none / 0) (#49)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:39:52 PM EST
    And so, he lives on to fight another day.

    Parent
    I don't follow these things, but, (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by NYShooter on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 11:34:40 PM EST
    I recall reading that the path to the candidacy favored Hillary early, and Bernie later.

    Same kind of thing with the Republicans: Early primaries, very favorable for Trump, and as it moves on, more & more favorable for everyone else.

    Parent

    The friggin' point... (none / 0) (#120)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 09:01:04 AM EST
    is keeping Hillary in the left lane, and the issues in the spotlight...and for that, millions of us are grateful.  Keep on Bernin' Old Man River!

    Besides, your horse races best when there's another horse nipping at her heels.  You should be thanking the man for tuning your lady up for the big sh*t slingin' show to follow.

    Parent

    Right.. (none / 0) (#153)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 11:08:23 AM EST
    and if folks think Sanders is hateful-rude-arrogant-outrageous and entitled, just what till he-who-will-say-anything gets rolling with the Goldman Sachs, trade agreements, war-mongering, stained dressses, Vincent Foster, and endless dogwhistles to begrudged misogynistic "bros"..lurid, outrageous stuff left hanging in the air that can't be unsaid..

    Long about that time, Berne Sanders will start looking like the best teacher/friend Hillary ever had..

    Parent

    It looks like (none / 0) (#17)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 07:30:33 PM EST
    Rubio may be 5th after Carson.   Ouch.

    Parent
    Rubio isn't even breaking 10% in Michigan. (none / 0) (#41)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:19:34 PM EST
    Hard to see him going forward now.

    Parent
    Rubio will be 0 for 3 states (none / 0) (#64)
    by CoralGables on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 11:36:08 PM EST
    No delegates from Michigan, Mississippi, or Idaho.

    Lucky for him he still has Hawaii. Things continue to get worse for Rubio starting from the moment he decided acting like Trump would hurt Trump. The only thing shrinking here is Marco.

    Parent

    Hawaii's not so lucky for Rubio. (none / 0) (#76)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 02:40:36 AM EST
    He only got 12%, last I heard. Trump won out here, but if the total turnout reached 6,000 statewide then it was a good night for them. (They predicted 20,000, which was wishful thinking.) Elder Daughter called tonight and said the boys volleyball team she coaches had a match tonight at one of the high schools that also served as a GOP polling place, and there were about 400 participants, and almost all white. One of her players quipped on the bus afterward that attendees looked like "Revenge of the Walking Dead." That made me laugh.

    Parent
    Yup (none / 0) (#84)
    by CoralGables on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 06:49:01 AM EST
    Looks like Rubio completes the dubious sweep. Four states and zero delegates on the night.

    Parent
    What Happens to His Delegates... (none / 0) (#166)
    by ScottW714 on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 11:44:24 AM EST
    ... if he drops out ?

    I thought they went to the front runner, but somewhere I read that he could give them to Cruz.

    Parent

    I believe (none / 0) (#172)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 12:36:44 PM EST
    They are still the candidate's until and u less said candidate releases them through the first ballot at the convention - then they are free to vote or whomever they choose.

    Parent
    They're not Rubio's to give away. (none / 0) (#180)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 01:24:35 PM EST
    It's a two-tiered process. First, GOP delegates are allocated proportionally by the popular vote in each state primary or caucus, and are pledged to support the voters' choices on the first ballot. Then, the actual persons who will attend the national nominating convention in Cleveland as delegates will be selected by their respective state conventions. Thus, the national delegates answer to state GOP voters, and not to the candidate himself.

    Parent
    Rubio starting to look like (none / 0) (#105)
    by pitachips on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 08:21:54 AM EST
    A mini Jeb in the sense that it looks like there is a ton of money being spent on his behalf, apparently with no results. I am in Chicago and his ads are running pretty consistently. Will be interesting to see how much will have been spent here in IL.

    Parent
    I'm Reminded of the Summer (none / 0) (#107)
    by CoralGables on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 08:26:40 AM EST
    when every story on Florida was, who would capture "winner take all" in the Sunshine State, Bush or Rubio.

    Parent
    Remember Scott Walker? (none / 0) (#115)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 08:39:22 AM EST
    First (none / 0) (#10)
    by FlJoe on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 07:01:54 PM EST
    report, MS called for Clinton.
    Exit polls showing Trump up by 13.

    Showing the exit polls (none / 0) (#13)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 07:10:53 PM EST
    The only demo Trump is losing is "very conservative"

    And that not by much.  Whatever else I happy the very conservatives are unhappy.

    Trump (none / 0) (#19)
    by FlJoe on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 07:38:34 PM EST
    holds off Cruz in MS looks good in MI, excellent night shaping up for Trump. Kasich strong second in MI will be declared a winner by the media, Rubio might make double digits somewhere.

    On MSNBC (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 07:43:57 PM EST
    They just showed a display of Trump products by the podium where he will speak later.

    Trump steaks, Trump water, Trump wine several other things.

    Come on.   That's funny.

    Parent

    Ha! Surprised it took this long for the product (none / 0) (#30)
    by ruffian on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 09:02:06 PM EST
    placement. When will the media demand advertising fees?

    Parent
    Bernie has a long history (none / 0) (#21)
    by athyrio on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 07:55:55 PM EST
    of not liking the democratic party very much...has found much fault with it for many years as well as Obama...so maybe he doesn't care how much damage he does while exiting...

    Hoping (none / 0) (#22)
    by sallywally on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 08:05:04 PM EST
    Detroit area, Wayne County will give Hillary the lead.

    I saw Wayne County (none / 0) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 08:08:58 PM EST
    I love Wayne County! (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by lilburro on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 09:57:06 PM EST
    Many years ago I lived in Oakland County, MI (none / 0) (#26)
    by sallywally on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 08:28:56 PM EST
    Back then unions were strong and a lot of the rich folks there were Dems. All one now.

    Er, (none / 0) (#28)
    by sallywally on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 08:31:29 PM EST
    All gone now.

    Parent
    Auto Co CEOS (none / 0) (#27)
    by sallywally on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 08:30:27 PM EST
    Made about $1 million per year.

    Some of the top (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by NYShooter on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 08:36:41 PM EST
    baseball players make that in one day.

    Good to see America has its priorities straight.

    Parent

    I don't blame America for that. (5.00 / 1) (#205)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 04:51:31 PM EST
    Given the now-exorbitant ticket prices for games, I'd venture that most Americans have probably been priced right out of the ballparks which their tax dollars have likely and generously underwritten through numerous bond issues. Seriously, how many can afford the average $200-plus it costs for a proverbial family of four to take in a ball game, not including the peanuts and crackerjacks?

    When I was in Sacramento on business a couple of years ago, I had a free evening and thought I'd take in one of the Triple-A River Cats games at Raley Field. Here are what ticket prices look like for a Pacific Coast League game. The cheapest seats ($10 in advance, $12 on game day) are for "Home Run Hill," a grassy knoll in right field where you bring your own blanket and / or folding chairs.

    Suffice to say  that attendance at pro sporting events has increasingly become a corporate-sponsored pastime. And I venture that it won't be too much longer before watching games at home on TV becomes a pay-per-view event, if it hasn't already in some locales.

    Maybe this sounds like it's off-topic, but it's really not. Rather, it's but one footnote of the overall narrative about why many Americans are feeling alienated and besieged. In this case, some of the things many of us used to enjoy as kids and young adults and perhaps even took for granted, such as going to a ball game, are now becoming luxury items which are proving unattainable for evermore numbers of people.

    The fact that a number of billionaire team owners still expect public tax subsidies to underwrite their facilities and operations, and constantly threaten to move their teams elsewhere if they don't get them, only further rubs salt into the festering wound.

    Alienation feeds anxiety. Anxiety leads to desperation. And desperation is the fossil fuel of political demagogy, which can often lead people toward emotional decision making that's not necessarily in their best long-term interests.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Like Michael Moore said, Dude, (none / 0) (#31)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 09:25:43 PM EST
    Where's my country?

    Parent
    That background hum you hear (none / 0) (#192)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 03:40:05 PM EST
    isn't tinnitus, it's Wahoo Sam Crawford and Three Finger Brown spinning in their graves at 2000 rpms.

    Parent
    "This year Super Tuesday finally worked (none / 0) (#37)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:12:19 PM EST
    as planned; hindering a progressive, aiding an insider. There was a twist: African-Americans who now dominate the party in the South made it work. I doubt they prefer Clinton's neoliberalism to Sanders' democratic socialism. The win owed more to loyalty to Obama and other trusted leaders, and to Hillary's skills and connections. By Saturday, eight of the 11 states of the old Confederacy had voted. In them she won 68 percent of the vote. Ten of 39 states outside the South had voted. In those states Sanders took 57 percent of the vote. On March 15, the Confederacy will be all done voting. The race begins then.

    To see the race as it really is one must see the Democratic and Republicans parties as they really are. The story going round is that they're far apart. It's true of cultural issues: guns; same-sex marriage; abortion; immigration. But on matters of the distribution of political and economic power and opportunity they are as close as can be. By these I mean: global trade, fiscal austerity, deregulation, information technology; use of military force and most of all what they fight hardest to defend: pay to play politics. It is against this bipartisan consensus of pay to play politics and neoliberal economics that the country, including large chunks of each party's base, now rises up."

    - Bill Curry, Salon, March 8, 2016

    When (none / 0) (#40)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:17:36 PM EST
    people write articles like that ignoring what a weak general election candidate Sanders is I just wonder what is with them? The GOP would chew him up and spit him out in a nanosecond and there's a reason why they are supporting him and it's not because they want to vote for him. It's because they think they can beat him. And given the choice between the socialism that Sanders is offering and the nationalism Trump is offering, I'm willing to bet they're going to go with the nationalism.

    Parent
    A bitter socialist (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by AX10 on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:25:59 PM EST
    vs a strong/bullying nationalist.
    Guess who wins?  Not the bitter socialist.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#43)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:29:07 PM EST
    anybody who thinks that won't happen has forgotten the Bush years. And what if a terrorist attack happens before the election? Sanders would be complete toast.

    Parent
    Strong and wrong wins over weak and right. (none / 0) (#45)
    by AX10 on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:33:11 PM EST
    Hillary is strong and right.  Vote for her.
    I am concerned about Ohio.

    Parent
    To paraphrase Gary Shandling.. (none / 0) (#155)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 11:16:24 AM EST
    people who think strong and wrong always wins don't know where the finish line is.

    Parent
    Okay. (none / 0) (#158)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 11:22:29 AM EST
    Tell us when weak has won an election?

    Parent
    I think Shandling was referring (none / 0) (#167)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 11:58:03 AM EST
    to the "finish line of life", as it were..

    As vague and nebulous as that may strike some.

    The Right has won many an election while adhering to an agenda that was, imo, "weak" pragmatically, intellectually, and morally..

    They figured out how to cynically use the media to manipulate the herd to support their self-serving, ultimately unsustainable projects. That doesn't make them strong, it just makes them azoles.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#171)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 12:33:34 PM EST
    it's up to us to make that case and we haven't been. I'm not sure the American people like morality lectures though whether it comes from the right or the left.

    Parent
    Some kinds they seem to like.. (none / 0) (#174)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 12:44:49 PM EST
    when it's about abortion, gays, and personal reponsibility..

    The Left's biggest weakness is that we-they stood by and to a large extent let the Right completely hijack the moral high ground.

    How the hell did that happen?

    Parent

    Part of how that happened is... (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by kdog on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 01:06:08 PM EST
    the infamous "Third Way" Democrat...so pragmatic they ceded the moral high ground on economics and criminal justice to the right wing, all because in their view it was better to win an election the wrong way than lose one the right way.

    That's how ideals can be over-pragmatized into oblivion. Mix pragmatism and ambition without moderation and before you know it you have a two party system consisting of one hard right party and one center-right party, and a working class so burned and betrayed and out of better ideas, they are considering voting for a billionaire NYC Real Estate & Marketing shyster making wildly false claims and promises, up to and including the size of his junk.

    Parent

    I was around when McGovern ran (5.00 / 2) (#75)
    by sallywally on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 01:42:15 AM EST
    And lost 49 states to Nixon in the national election. Idealism carried him to the nomination but what a dreadful loss.

    Parent
    To be fair (none / 0) (#131)
    by pitachips on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 09:47:47 AM EST
    It's no longer 1972. Country/politics has changed.

    Parent
    lt seems to me all that is needed (none / 0) (#188)
    by sallywally on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 03:03:57 PM EST
    is the party wholeheartedly behind the wrong candidate and a huge voting bloc on the other side.

    Parent
    I'm sorry (none / 0) (#46)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:33:23 PM EST
    The AA vote for Hillary is absolutely not loyalty to Obama.  That's just silly.  The Clintons have a deep deep history with that community.  When John Lewis said what he said it was not out of loyalty to Obama.  It was because it was the truth.

    Parent
    Also this (none / 0) (#48)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:38:29 PM EST
    The story going round is that they're far apart. It's true of cultural issues: guns; same-sex marriage; abortion; immigration

    Even if the rest of that was true, which it is not,  I'll take that.  That right there is plenty of reason to stop the BS that the parties are the same.   Those are some pretty damn important things he just blew by there.

    Parent

    Yeah, that was pretty amazing (none / 0) (#51)
    by ruffian on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:46:15 PM EST
    He should have included the title (none / 0) (#52)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:49:08 PM EST

    Hillary's inevitability lie: Why the media and party elites are rushing to nominate the weakest candidate

    For two years, media has swallowed and peddled the Clinton inevitability line. She's the one Dem even Trump beats

    And saved everyone a lot of time

    Parent

    You alluded to it earlier.... (5.00 / 3) (#58)
    by ruffian on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 11:14:57 PM EST
    The dem party had eight years to rally behind someone else if they wanted to. She was not 'inevitable' intil people started supporting her. That's called having a lot of supporters, not some magical inevitability cloak.

    And now we're supposed to think the party that spent years positioning itself in such a way, for better or whose, is going the chuck the candidate that is exactly where they wanted her to be for someone that didn't even join the party until a year ago? It  staggers the imagination. Why bother having a party?

    Parent

    Honestly (none / 0) (#59)
    by CaptHowdy on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 11:24:22 PM EST
    I don't even think the people who write this stuff believe it.

    It's click bait.

    Parent

    I suspect that guns won in Michigan (none / 0) (#50)
    by Towanda on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:42:42 PM EST
    tonight, and we will see that in other states in hunting country -- but I am not seeing any polling (or exit polling) that asked about gun control.

    Parent
    And perhaps Sanders' spin that he voted to (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by oculus on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 11:25:44 PM EST
    save the auto industry even though he did not.

    Parent
    I want to pull my hair out when I hear this (5.00 / 5) (#69)
    by Anc260 on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 12:06:24 AM EST
    He supported the auto bailout when it was a stand alone issue. When the issue became a Wall Street bailout vs the auto bailout, it was clear that NOT saving Wall Street was more important to Sanders than saving the auto industry.

    This was not a "cheap shot," as I hear on CNN. It's a crucial distinction. Sanders will apparently throw everyone under the bus in order to stick it to Wall Street.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again- Hillary Clinton is not allowed to attack her opponent. The pushback is remarkable.

    Parent

    That (5.00 / 3) (#80)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 06:23:19 AM EST
    is what's scary about him. He seems unable to comprehend how it all works. If it was something that helped women but included Wall Street I guess we would be under the bus too. He can't seem to understand that Wall Street is not the source of all problems in this society.

    And there are plenty of secretaries etc. that work on Wall Street. Does he hate working class people too that work for some of these firms on Wall Street?

    Parent

    a thought (none / 0) (#196)
    by pitachips on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 04:07:57 PM EST

    Criticizing someone for voting against a bill just because it is attached to a policy/law that you support doesn't seem fair to me. That is a dangerous game to play.

    That's like supporting a bill defunding Obamacare just because it is tied to increased funding for Planned Parenthood?

    Parent

    It's more than that (5.00 / 4) (#198)
    by smott on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 04:15:56 PM EST
    Bernie is a single issue candidate, and in his effort to cram every square peg problem into a Screw Wall St round hole, he shows he's not capable or not caring enough about balancing issues.

    Clonton shouldn't have played word games about his support, and just flat out said "politics is complicated and there's more than one issue . You can't be so focused on punishing Wall St that you throw auto workers and the middle class out with the bath water. "

    Parent

    Smott (5.00 / 2) (#202)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 04:32:30 PM EST
    said it well. He's so focused on his hatred of all things Wall Street that he has no sense of proportion. If it were left to Bernie and the only bill was one with TARP and a bailout of the auto industry, the auto industry would be dead now in MI. This is the single biggest problem with being "pure".

    Parent
    Sanders opposed the Wall Street bailout, (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 12:16:47 AM EST
    the $700B TARP facility signed into law in October 2008.  After the election, Bush couldn't get the $14B Auto industry package passed, which both Sanders and Clinton supported.  So Bush allocated part of the TARP funds to back the carmakers.  At the time Sanders voted against the $700B Wall Street bailout, no one anticipated that some of that money would eventually be allocated to the auto industry.

    Clinton was technically accurate but completely misleading, too clever by half, standard issue polititician's behavior.

    Parent

    TARP was absolutely (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by MKS on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 08:29:26 AM EST
    necessary.  I know this not the most popular thing to say, but the entire financial system (the economic circulatory system) had frozen up, and we were on the brink of a Great Depression.

      Banks were calling in their lines of credit to small and medium size businesses that had never been late on a single payment and were profitable--putting them out of business.

    The terms of TARP could have been different.  But a "bailout" was essential.  Or we would all be living in an economy from the 1500s.
     

    Parent

    You didn't finish the story, (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by NYShooter on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 09:35:27 AM EST
    "Banks were calling in their lines of credit to small and medium size businesses that had never been late on a single payment and were profitable--putting them out of business."

    ===============

    And, they stayed out of business. The 700 Billion dollars that was handed over to the banks was supposed to be used to prevent those things. The Administration sold the Tarp idea to Congress on the basis that banks would use the money to lend to  businesses that were squeezed due to the liquidity crisis, credit had dried up. Unfortunately, those geniuses forked over the money, with no strings attached! They just assumed the crooks at the banks & Wall Street, having caused the disaster, and, having been saved from bankruptcy by the taxpayers, would do with the money those things that the money was intended for.

    However, the banks must have thought the 700 Billion was a reward for having blown up the economy. The country was left to watch, with open mouths, as millions lost their jobs (many permanently,) and other millions lost their homes. But, thank God, they, at least were able to save something...............their bonuses.

    Parent

    new loans (none / 0) (#169)
    by MKS on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 12:15:44 PM EST
    were harder to come by.

    But TARP did work in terms of the liquidity crisis being eased.

    Parent

    It was the second least worst thing (none / 0) (#135)
    by FreakyBeaky on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 10:02:23 AM EST
    First least worst would have been nationalizing the SOBs. But I agree the third least worst alternative would have been a disaster. TARP wasn't a disaster.

    Parent
    The state is swimming in (5.00 / 1) (#65)
    by sallywally on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 11:38:42 PM EST
    pickups, and all the pickups have gun racks in the back of the cabs.

    Parent
    Makes me nostalgic (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by MKS on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 08:32:29 AM EST
    for the Ford pickup I had in High School.  God, I loved that truck.  Got totaled in an accident that left me with just a couple of scratches....Great loss.

    The new pick-ups are all 4 doors and Yuuuuge.  Not the same thing at all.

    Parent

    Mine doesn't. (none / 0) (#72)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 12:22:18 AM EST
    Sorry (none / 0) (#74)
    by sallywally on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 01:10:51 AM EST
    To generalize too extensively.

    Parent
    I agree gun control may have been key (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by Anc260 on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 11:47:49 PM EST
    Sanders won huge among independents, who I'd imagine are more conservative in Michigan (just guessing). If this had been a closed primary, then Clinton would have won.

    Looking at the calendar, Sanders will have some opportunites with open/hybrid primaries in the industrial Midwest (Illinois, Ohio, Missouri).

    However, there are some crucial closed primary states coming up later (New York, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, Florida).

    Just something to consider.

    Parent

    The gun control issue moves some (5.00 / 2) (#96)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 07:38:35 AM EST
    democrats to vote republican, people who can't otherwise stand republican policies.  A couple of my upstate new york cousins and husbands fall into that category.

    Parent
    I dunno about guns (5.00 / 1) (#81)
    by smott on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 06:31:23 AM EST
    But I think Sanders just realized how much being negative and rude in the debate helped him.
    There is deep Clinton hatred within his electorate and I believe he tapped into it Saturday. No time for Nate and his magic polls to catch up.

    Expect a lot more of it from Bernie.


    Parent

    He can (none / 0) (#83)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 06:43:57 AM EST
    continue to shoot himself in the foot with that strategy then. It might have worked in MI with an open primary but there are a lot coming up that are closed or semi closed.

    Parent
    Trade deals hated in MI also (none / 0) (#85)
    by smott on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 06:49:22 AM EST
    And Sanders hits Clinton hard there.

    Parent
    Hmm, maybe so (none / 0) (#56)
    by MKS on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:59:46 PM EST
    I do wonder what happened in Michigan....

    Parent
    People are angry (none / 0) (#62)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 11:30:44 PM EST
    WTF should they believe in machine politicians?

    Parent
    There was a definite trend towards Sanders (none / 0) (#67)
    by Anc260 on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 11:41:07 PM EST
    In the latest polls. Still, he outperformed his polling average by like 25 points.

    I know this was a fantastic upset that isn't likley to reoccur during this primary. Still, I'm not going to trust any polls from here on out. I have no idea how the polls could have all been so wrong. The exit polls don't suggest that Sanders won overwhelmingly among voters who recently decided. Instead, the polls apparently weren't capturing a representative sample.

    As for what happened in Michigan, I think the racial divides are revealing. She won African Americans by 30+ points. That would be a huge margin in most elections, but she had been winning this group by 80 points in some cases. If she had had that margin in Michigan then she would have won. There are clear intragroup differences among that voting block.

    Looking towards the future, I think Sanders is well positioned to win some states on March 15th. I tentatively still think that she will emerge from next week with an even larger lead in pledged delegate.


    Parent

    I remember back in 1988, we were ecstatic ... (none / 0) (#77)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 02:48:55 AM EST
    ... when Jesse Jackson upset Michael Dukakis in Michigan. The media started asking, "What does Jesse want?" As for his supporters, we were all thinking, "This is it, the breakthrough moment and now we're going to roll." Instead, Michigan ended up being the last state Jackson won. Dukakis didn't lose again.

    Parent
    Actually he did! (none / 0) (#92)
    by smott on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 07:15:34 AM EST
    He pulled a Snoopy with the tank picture, went technocrat on Kitty-rape, and turned an 18-pt summer lead into a rout in November.

    I know, I know.
    But polls are much better now. This is quite shocking.  The geeks at 538 are on oxygen.


    Parent

    But poor 538 (none / 0) (#112)
    by MKS on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 08:34:45 AM EST
    The polls let them down. They don't do  the polls themselves.....

    Major malfunction....it would be interesting to see what happened with the polling.

    Parent

    I was obviously talking about the primaries. (none / 0) (#182)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 01:28:23 PM EST
    ;-D

    Parent
    Open Primary (none / 0) (#146)
    by FreakyBeaky on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 10:45:37 AM EST
    Like NH but bigger I'm thinking. Polling HRC v Sanders did not catch the volatility of the electorate because there were in effect four other candidates & you never know what the Indy voters are going to do - because they never know until the last minute.

    Still a big miss, though.

    Parent

    Live Results from Michigan (none / 0) (#47)
    by Mr Natural on Tue Mar 08, 2016 at 10:34:53 PM EST
    Yesterday I read (5.00 / 2) (#71)
    by athyrio on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 12:18:55 AM EST
    that Sanders got two endorsements from Black leaders in Michigan..two different organizations of which I don't remember the names...maybe that helped him plus the NRA had to help him as well..rednecks are rednecks and are just blind on the subject of gun control...I know because my hubby is one..

    Parent
    It's starting to become a pattern (none / 0) (#86)
    by CoralGables on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 06:59:31 AM EST
    Sanders has what's perceived as a big night, and falls further behind in the delegate count.

    Bloomberg News reports delegate totals this morning as:

    Clinton 1221
    Sanders  571

    I believe that includes Supers (none / 0) (#87)
    by smott on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 07:06:21 AM EST
    Correct? Thought it was a little over +200 for Clinton?


    Parent
    You are (none / 0) (#89)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 07:09:42 AM EST
    correct. That number includes super. She's over 200 ahead in the pledged. Bernie needs blowout wins like Hillary got in MS to get anywhere near Hillary. It's just becoming a war of attrition it seems for Bernie at this point and next week is probably not favorable for him either.

    Parent
    I'd be cautious (none / 0) (#90)
    by smott on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 07:12:51 AM EST
    Every poll on 538 had Clinton up by double digits in MI, and with a 99% chance of winning. OK flipped abruptly too.

    Something's going on.

    Parent

    Oh, (5.00 / 1) (#93)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 07:19:43 AM EST
    no, I'm not trusting the polls. However looking at demographics and the fact that the next round of primaries are either semi closed or closed is not favorable to Bernie. He consistently does not do well with Democrats which even happened in MI.

    I read something like 78,000 Democrats voted in the GOP primary in MI. That won't happen in the other states.

    Parent

    Wow. 78K (none / 0) (#94)
    by smott on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 07:24:49 AM EST
    I've not seen the news beyond 538 today....where was that?

    Parent
    They also (5.00 / 2) (#95)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 07:32:37 AM EST
    Ran out of ballots in Flint.  Probably wouldn't have been more than the 20,000 to make up the gap, but it's still a problem.

    Parent
    The reverse of 2008 (none / 0) (#114)
    by MKS on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 08:38:36 AM EST
    In 2008, Hillary fell behind because of rural caucus states....and could not catch up although she was close.

    Here, she has built a lead in the South because of African Americans, and if all Bernie does is stay even or run slightly ahead as he did in Michigan, he still loses.

    Parent

    Yes (5.00 / 1) (#123)
    by Abdul Abulbul Amir on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 09:23:47 AM EST
    Hillary does well in red states, Brinie does well in blue states.

    Parent
    Since (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 09:26:02 AM EST
    when is MA a red state?

    Judging from what came out of MI Hillary's support is working class whites and minorities. Bernie's support is upper class whites.

    Parent

    Not completely (none / 0) (#134)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 09:53:48 AM EST
    She won those with incomes under $30,000 and those with incomes over $100,000.

    Parent
    Okay. (none / 0) (#136)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 10:06:36 AM EST
    Well, what I read was working class.

    Parent
    That includes everything (none / 0) (#91)
    by CoralGables on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 07:13:01 AM EST
    Last night's delegate totals thus far:

    Clinton 100
    Sanders  70

    And yes, as Clinton found out in 2008, a super counts the same as any other delegate. There are no GOP rules with "winner take alls" so the Dem race is effectively over.

    Parent

    That's how the press keeps the (none / 0) (#104)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 08:19:41 AM EST
    Horse race alive and people tuning in.

    Parent
    No horse race, no viewers (none / 0) (#106)
    by CoralGables on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 08:24:05 AM EST
    They are in business after all, and there is no Malaysian Airlines MH370 or he who shall not be named dominating the headlines...so horse race it is. Although for 24 hours sometime over the next 8 days the news cycle will be "whatever happened to Marco Rubio".

    Parent
    Donde esta Marco (5.00 / 1) (#113)
    by CaptHowdy on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 08:37:48 AM EST
    It seems so this morning :) (none / 0) (#108)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 08:27:00 AM EST
    Along with discussing that the Repub voter desires to tune into QVC for political stump speeches :)

    Parent
    Michigan Primary voters shatter 1972 record (none / 0) (#97)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 07:46:13 AM EST
    With more than 2.4 million voters turning out for Michigan's presidential primary on Tuesday, the record set in 1972, when 1.9 million people cast ballots, was shattered.

    Just under that - 1.9 million people or 47% of the registered voters - cast ballots in the 1972 election, according to Secretary of State Ruth Johnson. Turnout in presidential primaries typically is much lower. In 2012, only 16.7% of the registered voters cast ballots.


    - Kathleen Gray & Todd Spangler, The Detroit Free Press

    Hard to compare the Dems (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 07:57:56 AM EST
    In 2008, Obama and Edwards made a tactical decision to remove their names from the ballot, so they got 0 votes. Before that, the Michigan Dems had caucuses, which always have much smaller turnouts,  so it realky apoears that more of the "turnout increase" was on the Republican side.

    Parent
    Numbers can be twisted to mean (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by CoralGables on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 08:14:44 AM EST
    whatever someone wants them to mean...except when it comes to the final score. And the only score in the run-up to the nomination that actually counts is delegate count.

    Parent
    You ignored the larger issue. (none / 0) (#116)
    by Mr Natural on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 08:50:26 AM EST
    '08 was when "the Party" announced in advance that it would completely ignore the Michigan results for the heinous insult of violating the DNC's preciously concocted Southern Strategy.

    Parent
    Not really (none / 0) (#122)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 09:02:48 AM EST
    There was absolutely NO WAY "the Party" was really not going to count Michigan and Florida.  It just wasn't going to happen.

    Parent
    They did "count" eventually (none / 0) (#125)
    by smott on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 09:25:09 AM EST
    Though In doing so they halved Clinton's FL delegates and took some away in MI to give them to BO.

    Donna Brazile's way of splitting the pie.

    But we shall not re-hash 2008!

    Parent

    Today (none / 0) (#138)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 10:10:58 AM EST
    HRC has a larger lead over Sanders in total votes and pledged delegates than she did 24 hours ago.

    H/t Ron Klain via Twitter.

    Somewhat calmed by delegate count (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by Coral on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 11:17:35 AM EST
    Still I'm concerned about the continuing Democratic race. I would have preferred to see HRC get a narrow win in Michigan.

    The other rust belt states have been very hard hit by stagnating wages, outsourcing of manufacturing jobs, and decline in public investment.

    I would be extremely disappointed to see Hillary lose the nomination this time around. If I felt Bernie could win the general it would be a little less frightening.

    Parent

    Ohio State (4.00 / 1) (#159)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 11:24:41 AM EST
    Is on spring break next week.  That's 50,000+ potential Bernie supporters that won't be around to vote in Columbus and will be dispersed.

    Parent
    Nate Cohn (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by jbindc on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 11:35:50 AM EST
    Michigan changes the race, but not the probabilities

    Imagine, for instance, a brutal stretch for Mrs. Clinton, one where she underperforms the demographic projections by as much as she did in Michigan for the rest of the year.

    She loses in Ohio and Missouri next Tuesday. States where Mrs. Clinton was thought to have an advantage, like Arizona, New Mexico, Pennsylvania, Illinois, Indiana, California and Connecticut, become tossups. Mrs. Clinton wins New York, but by just eight percentage points.

    She gets swept in the West, including big 40-point losses in places like Alaska, Idaho, North Dakota, Utah and Montana, and 30-point losses in Washington and Oregon. She loses by 20 points in Wisconsin and Rhode Island, by 30 in West Virginia and Kentucky.

    She still wins -- and comfortably.

    How? She's already banked a large delegate lead, and it has nothing to do with the "superdelegates."

    Forty-three percent of all of the pledged delegates to the Democratic National Convention have already been awarded. She's won those delegates by roughly a 60-40 margin.

    To overcome it, Mr. Sanders will need to do nearly as well from this point on. Not even the very strong showing for Mr. Sanders imagined above would be enough.

    In fact, it still wouldn't be very close. Mr. Sanders basically splits the delegates with Mrs. Clinton the rest of the way -- leaving him far short of the big 15-point advantage he needs.



    Parent
    Amen. (5.00 / 1) (#187)
    by christinep on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 02:59:59 PM EST
    And may (none / 0) (#161)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 11:34:53 AM EST
    not vote at all because it's Spring Break and they are off to the beach or wherever.

    Parent
    Rubio Internal Battles (none / 0) (#190)
    by CoralGables on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 03:29:47 PM EST
    Rubio campaign officials deny that the Florida senator is contemplating an early exit from the campaign and say he will continue on through the GOP convention in July.

    Translation: Rubio will probably be out sometime between tonight and next Wednesday night.

    This is (none / 0) (#191)
    by Ga6thDem on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 03:34:19 PM EST
    pretty much down to Cruz and Trump as I expect Kasich to be gone after next week. Maybe if he wins Ohio he might be in longer.  

    Parent
    Down to (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by CoralGables on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 03:40:18 PM EST
    the one they hate vs the one they despise.

    Parent
    Kasich (none / 0) (#199)
    by FlJoe on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 04:17:04 PM EST
    will stay in for quite a while if and only if he wins Ohio. The calendar gets rather sparse for a month with only 200 delegates up for grabs in a month. Starting with NY there will be 700 delegates up for grabs, almost all of them in Blue states. It makes no sense at all for him to stay in just to win in Ohio and then fold it up because he can't compete in AZ(trump) and Utah (Cruz) and elsewhere in late March and early April. Maybe he can scrounge out as few delegates in WI or Colorado before hitting NY and hoping he can mount a late surge that might give him enough cred for a shot to be the compromise candidate coming out of a contested convention.

     

    Parent

    And while we're at it.. (none / 0) (#204)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 04:36:24 PM EST
    how can we forget all those unemployed pipeline workers undeserving of the callousness and utter disdain heaped upon them?

    RIP George Martin (none / 0) (#206)
    by jondee on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 05:18:56 PM EST


    Big crowd for Rubio stadium event tonight (none / 0) (#207)
    by CoralGables on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 05:58:11 PM EST
    Maybe they'll bring them in (none / 0) (#208)
    by fishcamp on Wed Mar 09, 2016 at 07:10:44 PM EST
    By train.  That's where the Miami Amtrac station is located, unfortunately.