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Bernie Sanders will run on the issues, not the nonsense

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Elections 2016
Posted on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 11:36:58 AM EST
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Very encouraging first morning from the Bernie Sanders' campaign for president:

No nonsense for Bernie. What will he run on? The issues:

Like foreign policy, trade, Wall Street, etc.

Sanders will run on the actual issues that matter to "everyday" people, to coin a phrase.

And that's why it's great he is in the race.

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    Bernie Sanders will run on the issues, not the nonsense | 79 comments (79 topical)

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    Well, if nothing else, (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by NYShooter on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 01:57:51 PM EST
    a lot of questions will get cleared up.

    We've talked a lot on TL about how none of the "D" candidates ever promote Progressive policies. It seems like they all bought into the false notion that the country is moving/has moved to the Right, and that's where the Dems should go also.

    Well, Bernie, sure as heck, isn't going "to the right" and, we're finally going to see how Liberal ideas poll with the American Public.

    It couldn't be any clearer: pure Liberal positions vs. hard Right, and, accelerating.

    Sen. Sanders provides an opportunity ... (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 02:30:53 PM EST
    ... for Mrs. Clinton to define her candidacy along progressive terms and themes. (And quite frankly, if she wants to win the White House decisively, that's what she will need to do.) Their sober and substantive discussion about real issues will provide a refreshing (if jarring) contrast to the hyperbolic white-wing screechathon that passes for public debate on the GOP's crazy train.

    Parent
    What is going on with Jim (none / 0) (#7)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 02:36:27 PM EST
    Webb? Apparently he did not even show up to the SC state Dem convention where everybody else did or at least taped a message.

    Parent
    Jim Who? (none / 0) (#11)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 03:28:18 PM EST
    ;-D

    Parent
    What's Webb going to run on? (none / 0) (#35)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 01, 2015 at 06:55:14 AM EST
    Hillary's got the money and Bernie has the issues.  Webb can only cherry pick through the issues.  In a different decade Webb would be a Republican.

    Parent
    I guess (none / 0) (#47)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 01, 2015 at 09:50:33 AM EST
    he's looking to get the Pat Buchanan groupies to vote in the Dem primaries. Good luck with that though. I really don't think he has much of a constituency.

    Parent
    That it will... (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 03:07:15 PM EST
    Bernie is one of the least politician-like politicians I've ever seen.  He's gonna lay his ideas and positions on the table, and keep no cards up his sleeve.

    Will the media give him play and will the casual voter get to hear any of it? He'll probably be ignored, or at best mocked without time to speak, unless his team gets imaginative and theatrical in their approach and the media is forced to cover it...such as getting arrested for blocking the entrance to the NYSE, or digging a tunnel for a jailbreak or something.  Or at least that's what I would suggest if I was campaign manager;)

    Parent

    I wouldn't sell Bernie short. (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by NYShooter on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 03:54:50 PM EST
    He's no shrinking violet, you can bet he will be heard. And, when he gets going he can be entertaining as he*l.

    I don't have a clue if he has a chance to win it all, or not. But, he will do the country a great service by loudly, and forcefully promoting real Liberal issues, and explaining how they could be implemented for the benefit of all.

    Just, keep one thing in mind, and it's very important. He may not win, but, he sure can hurt Hillary. Not by attacking her in a vicious way, but by being for policies that the middle class will like, and, by necessity, Hillary will have to be against.

    Most importantly, he will present a very powerful case against the TPP; Hillary will have to defend voting for it.

    How, and why, and all the details will come in due time, but the bottom line is, and Hillary will have to give it a lot of serious thought, the two of them will be on opposite sides of the biggest treaty, with the greatest impact on the middle class, in our lifetime.

    Parent

    I'm not... (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 06:05:18 PM EST
    I'm selling the media short. The more impact he makes, the more the corporate suits will push the news and media divisions to run stories like "Did Chipotle donate to CGI?" or "Ted Cruz reads Jack and the Beanstalk at fundraiser".

    I've seen him interviewed and appearances, he is very good at sticking bullsh#t questions and comments up people's arses, no doubt. That's part of the reason we love him! But he's up against one helluva machine, I think he needs to go big and creative to get relevant enough outside current events geek circles such as this.


    Parent

    I really (none / 0) (#39)
    by Reconstructionist on Fri May 01, 2015 at 08:06:27 AM EST
      don't think it will be a "referendum" on "liberal ideas."

       Nor do I think we will likely end up wanting to portray the results as such.

      If we have one candidate who is "liberal" and one who is not, the showing of the "liberal" candidate versus the other candidate is not merely a reflection of the relative popularity of their expressed (or even attributed) ideas.

      MANY other factors come into play. Money, connections, media access, "starting position (name recognition and more)," "sophistication" and sheer size of the campaign organizations, the influence of "inevitability" or "electability on actual voting choices, the purely "personal," personality/style/ etc., qualities of the candidates, and more, will all exert huge influence.

       As I said in an earlier thread, I actually fear that if Sanders does get roundly trounced, that will wrongly be used to argue liberal positions are more  unpopular than they really are..

       

    Parent

    Bernie is great (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 04:08:04 PM EST
    just turned n the tube and Big Ed is doing his best to get Bernie to talk trash about Hillary.  He won't do it.

    He (none / 0) (#19)
    by FlJoe on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 04:18:51 PM EST
    is a master at swatting away the horse race and attack bait questions that are sadly inevitable.  

    Parent
    Wow (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 04:25:23 PM EST
    he's framing economic and ecological  issues as moral issues.  And using the Pope.
    I'm liking this primary so far.

    Parent
    It may be even more interesting (5.00 / 1) (#58)
    by sj on Fri May 01, 2015 at 04:37:25 PM EST
    than I thought:.
    Bernie Sanders' nascent presidential campaign announced Friday that it raised more than $1.5 million in its first 24 hours, a number that far outpaces what Republican presidential hopefuls posted in their first day.
    He may actually have the voice that I am hoping for.

    His (5.00 / 3) (#59)
    by FlJoe on Fri May 01, 2015 at 05:17:00 PM EST
     voice will hopefully let the Democrats reclaim their legacy, as Pierce puts it:
    What is remarkable about Sanders's platform is how unremarkable it would sound to any run-of-the-mill Democratic politician 40 years ago
    , of course 40 years ago sane Republicans were not an endangered species, even Nixon has his good days, but I digress. Bottom line  too many Democrats are afraid of  actually acting like Democrats, hopefully Bernie can slap some sense into them, starting with Hillary on down.

    Parent
    I so agree (none / 0) (#1)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 12:17:08 PM EST
    he has never run a negative ad.  He is the perfect person to talk about what matters.  And if he talks about the press can't avoid it.
    You HOPE (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 01:59:02 PM EST
    the press wouldn't avoid talking about it but you never know.

    I hope you are right though and we don't hear screeches of hippies from Vermont or other nonsense.

    Parent

    The Dean Scream? (none / 0) (#5)
    by CST on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 02:31:39 PM EST
    IMO, VT hippies are the best kind of hippy.

    Some fun facts about VT (most of this is from wiki):

    It's the 2nd least populated state in the country, after Wyoming.  It's also one of the whitest states in the country.

    They have banned billboards.

    It's the only state with no buildings over 124 feet.

    The most populous city is Burlington, with 42,417 people.

    It's the least religious state in the country.

    They had the highest per-capita death rate in the Iraq war of any state as of 2010.

    I get a free gallon of VT maple syrup from family friends every year  (Okay that one was more bragging than fact).

    I think my point with all this, is that while they may be "hippies" - they still qualify as "real America", unlike those brown folk in Baltimore...  So I wonder how that will play.

    Parent

    I get (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 02:35:02 PM EST
    so sick of the "real American" BS. People in Vermont are as much Americans as people in inner city Baltimore.

    It always brings back to my mind when Bob Barr was challenged during Bill Clinton's impeachment with something like 70% of Americans don't want this to happen and Bob Barr spat back with well, "real Americans" do.

    Parent

    The irony kicker is... (none / 0) (#8)
    by kdog on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 02:41:24 PM EST
    those that claim "real" American status the loudest are the ones typically most at odds with classical American values...ya know, all that hippie sh*t like equality under the law, equal opportunity, open arms to immigrants and refugees seeking a better life, no desire for an empire,...life, liberty, and justice for all.

    Parent
    Which proves (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by jbindc on Fri May 01, 2015 at 12:04:34 PM EST
    He's never had to try and win over anyone other than in a homogeneous population.  Sure, it's easy to say what you want when you have no risk, politically.

    And since he has no chance of winning, Hillary can agree with him on most things, yet still not go all the way left, so she can still appeal to those voters in the middle.

    Parent

    yup (5.00 / 2) (#56)
    by CST on Fri May 01, 2015 at 12:11:35 PM EST
    I don't think anyone thinks Bernie will win.  Probably not even Bernie.

    But we will all benefit from him being in the race.  Probably even Hillary as has the potential to increase Dem enthusiasm overall, and he'll keep the focus on the issues.

    Parent

    My point was (none / 0) (#68)
    by jbindc on Sat May 02, 2015 at 10:05:30 AM EST
    I think running for president is gonna be harder than old Bernie thinks.  He can say what he wants in Vermont - they'll always re-elect him.  He can say what he wants to Rachel Maddow and Chris Hayes and the couple hundred thousand people who watch, because it is friendly host with a teeny tiny audience of people who mostly agree with him.

    Sure, it would be great for Hillary to have a sparring partner to sharpen her thoughts and plans, but I don't really expect Sanders to make it through January, and if he makes it to Super Tuesday, I would be shocked.

    Parent

    We will see (none / 0) (#71)
    by Militarytracy on Sat May 02, 2015 at 11:53:20 AM EST
    I expect him to make Super Tuesday.

    I don't think Sanders is out of touch with the requirements of a Presidential run, not in the least.  Let's see Hillary's plays, that will determine how far Sanders gets and she's going to have to swerve left to knock him out.

    I think Sander's first goal is to get the real issues on the table in a race that has money determining which issues get play.  After that who knows what's going to happen?  If he isn't careful he could become President.

    He has the credibilty and jousting skills to do this, he is allowing all of us to use him in this election to have a voice.  Thank you Bernie, I'll owe you forever no matter how the chips fall on the final day.

    Parent

    Sometimes it doesn't take too long (5.00 / 4) (#72)
    by NYShooter on Sat May 02, 2015 at 12:46:31 PM EST
    to uncover THE message:

    ".....harder than old Bernie thinks."

    O.K. So, let's set up Senator Sanders as the stereotypical, dottering old fuddy duddy, looking for his glasses (oops, right there, on his forehead.) Oh, ha, ha, ha.

    "Oooh, this is really hard, all this campaigning, and stuff. whew! I need a nap."

    Got it, 35 years, holding various elective posts, both local, and national, yet, clueless as to what a Presidential run entails.

    Look, I don't think anyone has any misconceptions as to what's going on, or what his chances are. I think Bernie's goal (mine also) is to, for the first time in a long, long time, get the message out, that there is a message that's neither "center-right, right, or, far right."

    So much of the American public has never been exposed to ideas, or movements, specifically addressed for the benefit of the middle class, or the under class. You know, when you're an inmate in a prison the place stinks so bad all you want to do is find a spot where it stinks a little less. The idea of breathing fresh air doesn't even cross your mind.

    All I want is for Bernie to show, and, tell Americans what fresh air smells like. And, he'll tell them that, believe it, or not, most every thing that's good, and right, and worth dying for about our country came about because of people like Bernie Sanders, fighting for the things that really matter. And, for the American people to really give a crap. He'll tell them that the reason things really suck today is because we let a small group of really bad, really selfish, really un-American, scoundrels band together to buy up our Government, and sell all the rest of us up the river to the lowest bidder.

    He'll tell them, "we had it once, we can have it again. All you have to do is walk out of your house, and pull a lever." That's it.  

    Parent

    But the mainstream media can ... (none / 0) (#10)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 03:25:11 PM EST
    ... simply ignore Sen. Sanders, which is exactly what they did to John Huntsman, who was probably the most grounded and substantive Republican in the entire 2012 GOP primary field. Instead, they went for the vicarious entertainment provided by Rich Santorum, Newt Gingrich, et al., and Huntsman could barely get a word in edgewise.

    And that's what will likely happen to both Sen. Sanders and former Gov. Martin O'Malley, if Hillary Clinton doesn't seek to engage either or both of them in a public conversation about policy.

    IMHO, while there might be some element of political risk involved in deliberately elevating the profile of her Democratic primary opponents, it's really to Clinton's long-term advantage to tack the national debate to port and back to those issues that actually matter.

    Actively involving Sanders, O'Malley and even Elizabeth Warren in the discussion can do that for Clinton. Otherwise, I fear that the media's primary season coverage will mostly focus on the wingbat flotilla off the starboard bow, and leave the rest of us to wonder which GOP candidate will be the first to propose that the government be allowed to seize a pregnant woman's uterus through the eminent domain process.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    Right now (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by CaptHowdy on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 04:05:28 PM EST
    its Bernie and Hillary.  That makes him a bit harder to ignore.

    Parent
    Huntsman (none / 0) (#17)
    by FlJoe on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 04:06:27 PM EST
    never had the numbers to grab the attention of the media. He consistently polled near the bottom of the clown car. Of course the press yawned.

     I don't think Bernie will have that problem as the  field looks to be much less crowded and clownish, besides Bernie is no slouch when it comes to getting face time on the news shows and getting max mileage from it. There is no way the press can ignore him, they already let him the room.

    Parent

    Sanders gets face time on Rachel Maddow ... (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 05:31:53 PM EST
    ... and a couple other MSNBC shows, where his appearances provide a thoughtful and welcome respite from the endless "panel discussions" with that cable network's usual suspects, i.e., Chuck Todd, Andrea Mitchell, Krystal Ball, Luke Russert, Touré, Joy Reid, etc.

    But on the "Big Three" networks' respective evening news broadcasts, where 60% of Americans still get most of their information, Sen. Sanders is rarely if ever seen on the air. That's probably because he's not necessarily "quotable," -- that is, he's not one for glib remarks, superficial sound bites and pointless posturing.

    Now, please don't get me wrong. I genuinely like Bernie Sanders, and have long appreciated his long-term presence in D.C. and his unflinching willingness to speak truth to power. And kudos to Vermont voters for recognizing a quality public servant when they see one.

    But quite honestly, I'd venture that American voters outside New England might know Sanders vaguely as "that old Socialist from Vermont," if they've ever heard of him at all. And even over on MSNBC, where he's long enjoyed some serious rapport with several of its hosts, dismissive remarks such as this from NBC News political director Chuck Todd likely doesn't enhance his public profile.

    Aloha.

    Parent

    My sincere condolences to BTD, ... (none / 0) (#13)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 03:58:26 PM EST
    ... whose beloved Florida Gators have apparently lost their men's basketball coach, Billy Donovan, to the allure of the Great Plains. According to a courageous and heroic anonymous source in the NBA's front office who'd obviously be burned alive at the stake were his or her identity to be revealed, Donovan has agreed to a $30 million, five-year deal to take the reins of the Oklahoma City Thunder.

    Oops. Off-topic. (none / 0) (#14)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 03:59:59 PM EST
    Never mind. ;-D

    Parent
    We had him for 19 great years (none / 0) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 04:03:21 PM EST
    He's irreplaceable but here's hoping we get a coach worthy to succeed him.

    Parent
    I hear that Scotty Brooks is still available. (none / 0) (#21)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 04:42:52 PM EST
    I know that sounds like snark, but he really did a great job turning around a floundering Thunder franchise. He has a good reputation as a players' coach and I think he'd be a great fit at Florida, although whether or not he'd consider a head coach's position at the collegiate level is an open question.

    Parent
    Okay, everyone, we can all go home now. (none / 0) (#22)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 04:58:31 PM EST
    Back in Dec. 2010, Chuck Todd decreed that Bernie Sanders was irrelevant and didn't matter. I'm so glad that he cleared that up for us.

    Speaking for myself only, this voter promises in the future to be far less vigilant and much more trusting of our omnipotent D.C. press corps.

    :-(

    Bwahahahaha! (none / 0) (#25)
    by Zorba on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 06:38:53 PM EST
    Back in Dec. 2010, and even before, Chuck Todd was more than irrelevant, and he certainly didn't matter.
    And he doesn't even get the irony.

    Parent
    Even The onion seems to show some resprct his way (none / 0) (#26)
    by Babel 17 on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 07:51:50 PM EST
    Imo
    http://www.theonion.com/articles/who-is-bernie-sanders,38525/

    I am encourgaged (none / 0) (#27)
    by jimakaPPJ on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 08:25:26 PM EST
    Bernie will lay out his ideas.

    Now let's let the Repub and Demos lay out their's.

    If that actually happens it will be interesting to see what the results are.

    Nah....ain't gonna happen.

    Republicans (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by FlJoe on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 08:38:38 PM EST
    Have no ideas, Democrats often run from theirs, Bernie will proudly lay his cards on the table and force the issues.

    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#29)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Apr 30, 2015 at 08:55:16 PM EST
    the problem isn't that Republicans have no idea. The problem is that Republicans have bad ideas. Even the young 'uns like Rubio sound like they're 80 years old when they talk about policy.

    Parent
    Glad to see that (none / 0) (#30)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 01, 2015 at 05:15:54 AM EST
    you two are open minded, looking for solutions and would enjoy a debate from all sides.

    Makes me smile just to think about it.

    Parent

    With Rand Paul promising (5.00 / 1) (#33)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri May 01, 2015 at 06:03:19 AM EST
    To investigate the possible military invasion of the Southwest by the Obama Administration, I'm sure a lot of wonderful, brilliant and innovative ideas will come from the Republican side of the aisle next year,moll owing his example.


    Parent
    Like (none / 0) (#34)
    by FlJoe on Fri May 01, 2015 at 06:23:43 AM EST
    I said, comedy gold.

    Parent
    Republicans say Kasich (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri May 01, 2015 at 07:23:05 AM EST
    Is hiding behind Jesus because he accepted the Medicaid expansion of Obsmacare in Ohio.

    Ohio Gov. John Kasich (R) was criticized by Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal (R) and South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley (R) for "hiding behind Jesus to expand Medicaid" according to a report in The Atlantic.

    The two Republican governors confronted Kasich at a donor forum hosted by the Koch brothers in Palm Springs.

    A source at the event told The Atlantic, "It got heated."

    So, you see, it's important to protect people of faith from selling goods an/or services to those nasty gays, but actually doing something that the Founder of Christianity explicitly said he wanted done, well, that's hiding behind Him, isn't it?

    You can't make this sh*t up, man.  


    Parent

    et al (none / 0) (#38)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 01, 2015 at 07:38:30 AM EST
    Well, I see that you are still against it.

    Oh well, I still think it would be fun...and useful.

    Parent

    Ok (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by FlJoe on Fri May 01, 2015 at 08:08:50 AM EST
    Jim, name a Republican idea and lets debate the merits of it.

    Parent
    I don't think Kasich is hiding behind Jesus. (none / 0) (#42)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri May 01, 2015 at 08:37:35 AM EST
    Do you agree or disagree with Kasich, Jim?

    Parent
    Defending a Repub idea ain't my job (none / 0) (#43)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 01, 2015 at 08:56:52 AM EST
    since I am not a Repub.

    But you can name a Demo idea if you like.

    However, I'll throw out a Social Liberal idea...

    Eliminate Obamacare and replace it with a single payer system based on Medicare as a model meaning using the same admin system. All services are "free" to the user and we maintain the existing provider structure. That would be ALL health care issues.

    It would be paid for by a national sales tax collected at the point of sale of around 15%. Unprepared food, primary residence purchases and utilities excepted.

    Parent

    Asking how you stand (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri May 01, 2015 at 09:05:44 AM EST
    On the issue isn't asking you to defend it, Jim.

    Again, yea, or nay: is Kasich hiding behind Jesus?

    And I'm glad to know that Bernie has your vote in the Democratic primary if he gets on the ballot in TN.


    Parent

    Somehow I know that no matter what (none / 0) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 01, 2015 at 10:28:16 AM EST
    position I take you will disagree.

    I mean you couldn't agree with my prop re drug law reform and didn't even comment on a jobs plan.

    As for Kasich, I haven't any idea as to what he is talking about or what that has to with health care.

    Come on. Bring forth some solutions for the problems and let's debate them.

    Parent

    I didn't ask you or anyone else (none / 0) (#52)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri May 01, 2015 at 10:52:34 AM EST
    to defend Kasich or his opponents, Jim.
    And the Portuguese example probably has more to teach us than your hair-brained scheme to give drugs away.  

    Maybe you could get a passport, and we could start a GoFund for a round-trip ticket and a translator so you could go to Lisbon and telling the people of Portugal  how they're doing it all wrong and you know how to it right.


    Parent

    Please (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by CaptHowdy on Fri May 01, 2015 at 11:00:19 AM EST
    what have the people of Portugal done to deserve that?

    Parent
    As I said (none / 0) (#60)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 01, 2015 at 09:57:39 PM EST
    you just disagree to disagree.

    And I don't know what is special about the "Portuguese example" beyond you think it is special.

    Why not explain the differences??

    Hair brained??

    Let me see. Government provided drugs to addicts so they don't have to sell part of their stash and/or do other illegal actions.

    Yes. That is hair brained.

    Parent

    Do your own research, jim (none / 0) (#62)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Fri May 01, 2015 at 10:09:59 PM EST
    And perhaps you'll learn something instead of pompously declaring you have everything figured out all the time.

    Parent
    no mordiggian (none / 0) (#63)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat May 02, 2015 at 06:49:04 AM EST
    On the net if you make a claim then it is up to you to prove/support the claim.

    It is that way because that's basically how our legal system work's and our culture works.

    I gave my prop re drug reform.

    Now I would have thought that you would have agreed with the basics of it but instead you want to talk about what another country is doing and bringing some governor's actions up that have nothing to do with drug law reforms.

    Thanks for showing everyone that you are fearful of debating the issues. And fearful that some useful reforms might take a political hammer away.

    I bet that if some Repub said s/he was for gay marriage you'd faint.

    Parent

    That's what you say because (none / 0) (#64)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat May 02, 2015 at 08:20:48 AM EST
    You can't debate, you want agreement, and I'm not going to agree with your nutty idea of giving away some drugs in order to solve the problem.

    As for making a claim, if you followed that rule, we'd never near from you again.

    So quit making things up.  

    This isn't your blog, so your "rules" don't count here.

    Parent

    Hmmm, outside of telling me (none / 0) (#65)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat May 02, 2015 at 09:22:15 AM EST
    that we should study Portugal and charge a tax on the "free drugs" you haven't "debated" anything.

    That's like me telling you that you should study Japan to find a solution to the problem of how we treat our elders.

    I mean we kinda know that age is highly respected in Japan, but how do we adopt that into our culture? Wait! I know. Google Japan and read Wiki. ;-)

    A secondary problem is that the solution I prop'd will require selling to the American voter. And telling the American voter how great some solution from a small country in Europe is will not be a successful strategy. By and large Americans are suspicious of cultural norms from foreign countries.

    So you have failed to respond with any solutions. Very expected and usual. So I'll try again.

    It is obvious that our K-12 educational system is in tatters. Millions of school age parents have opted to send their children to private schools at a heavy drain on their income. At the same time they pay local taxes to support what they see as a failed system.

    This creates a strong resentment and a strong opposition to any tax increases for the schools.

    I propose that the school district's budget be divided equally among all the school age children in the district and a voucher given that can be used by the parents at any school that accepts their child.

    It removes the complaint of the private school users that they are double paying.

    It removes the complaint that inner city schools get less money than the more affluent suburban schools.

    It stresses the schools to compete for customers.

    It forces the parent to become involved because they must select and apply. And the voucher becomes "their money" so the will tend to want to see results improved.

    And is imminently fair. Every child gets the same amount of tax dollars.

    How say you?

    Parent

    What I say (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by Yman on Sat May 02, 2015 at 10:16:52 AM EST
    It is obvious that our K-12 educational system is in tatters. Millions of school age parents have opted to send their children to private schools at a heavy drain on their income. At the same time they pay local taxes to support what they see as a failed system
    .

    No, it is not "obvious" - anything but.  As for their election to pay tuition, that's their choice.  


    This creates a strong resentment and a strong opposition to any tax increases for the schools
    .

    Does it?  You resent paying your grandchild's tuition?

    That's a shame.

    I propose that the school district's budget be divided equally among all the school age children in the district and a voucher given that can be used by the parents at any school that accepts their child.  It removes the complaint of the private school users that they are double paying
    .

    I propose any private school that accepts public funds of any sort has to abide by the same standards public schools must - including testing, curriculum standards and separation of church and state.  You want the money, you take the strings.  As for their complaint about "double paying" - too bad.  My neighbor pays for police through taxes and also chooses to live in a community where he gets charged for private security.

    Awe - so sad.

    It removes the complaint that inner city schools get less money than the more affluent suburban schools.


    And is imminently fair. Every child gets the same amount of tax dollars.

    Uhhmmmm ... those children aren't paying the same amount of taxes.  In fact, they aren't paying taxes at all.

    You or your kids want private school for your grandchild - particularly religious school?  You pay for it.

    Parent

    You should inform yourself (none / 0) (#66)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat May 02, 2015 at 09:34:48 AM EST
    before bloating about a given issue, Jim.

    If you don't understand that basic concept, all your logorrhea responses are a waste of my time to read and respond to.

    Hope that helps!

    Parent

    Thanks for avoiding (none / 0) (#67)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat May 02, 2015 at 09:58:51 AM EST
    I'll put you down as "non-responsive" and/or "no/opinion."

    Guess you are just happy to bluster and criticize rather than try and find solutions.

    And then complain when you don't like the solutions.

    Have a super day!

    Parent

    I've told you what you need to do (none / 0) (#70)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sat May 02, 2015 at 11:01:30 AM EST
    to be informed in a given subject.  If I don't agree with your Faux News POV, get over it.

    Parent
    The problem is what I prop'd was a discussion (none / 0) (#73)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat May 02, 2015 at 10:52:09 PM EST
    of the "problems."

    I can research all I want.

    What we need from you is your thoughts and ideas. You know, some brain storming, thinking outside the box, "if the give you lined paper write the other way," etc.

    Of course if you don't have any I will understand.

    Parent

    Grow up and quit acting like (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Sun May 03, 2015 at 02:32:53 AM EST
    you're a font of wisdom.  You're a disagreeable egoist who demands confirming, not enlightenment.


    Parent
    From your link (5.00 / 2) (#46)
    by FlJoe on Fri May 01, 2015 at 09:33:27 AM EST
     
    liberals seek to silence the opposition by censorship and leveling personal attacks while avoiding the issues at hand. It further elucidates their ignorance of the issues, their bad habits of changing the subject during the debate, and their wild self-constructed fantasies of the world
    projection much? I ask you an issue to debate and you declare it's not your job. Conservatives do not want honest debates.

    I will agree that single payer should be the law of the land (one of the issues that the Dem's run from and the Republicans denounce as Communism).
    However funding it with a sales tax is a horribly regressive way to fund it.


    Parent

    I confess the link is snarky ;-) (none / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 01, 2015 at 10:21:38 AM EST
    But even I need a little pay back from time to time.....just to let you start another false narrative that I am a conservative.

    Now, let me see. Asking everyone to pay a tax for health care is horribly regressive...??

    Now I excluded unprepared food, primary residence purchases and utilities. That's a big chunk of the income of those at the bottom end of the scale and a very small chunk at the upper end.

    Plus, the working poor, who pay a for a lot of scripts and Urgent Care visits out of  their income have  a very large savings.

    Plus, anyone buying insurance gets a real raise in income that they can save and/or spend. And all employers get a nifty saving. They can give their employees a raise, invest in new tools/marketing/hire more people or give it to the stock holder who can spend/save/etc.....

    And it even hurts my wife and me. Right now we spend around $6000 a year on health care. The new tax would clip us around 6,000to 7,000.

    But I'll sweeten the pot a bit. Since transportation is such a large portion of the working poor's budget let's exclude fuel and auto purchase under $3000. To make up for that we can cap primary residences exclusion at $300,000.

    Now, how would you pay for it???

    Parent

    sales (none / 0) (#53)
    by FlJoe on Fri May 01, 2015 at 10:55:09 AM EST
    tax by there very nature are regressive by nature. You seem to acknowledge the fact with the exclusions you list. Sure if you exclude all the "basics" you can minimize the pain  and turn it into a tax on "luxury" items but I am not sure that enough revenue could be raised that way.

    I would rather see a tax analogous to the medicare tax we now pay. Presumably the majority of people who now receive compensation via insurance from their employers would see their wages rise as a replacement, thus negating the tax hit and possibly even a net gain for many.

    Parent

    I have no problem with another payroll tax (none / 0) (#61)
    by jimakaPPJ on Fri May 01, 2015 at 10:00:35 PM EST
    beyond the fact that it is just another payroll tax that will be opposed by many who see some getting insurance that they aren't paying for.

    Parent
    Heavan forbid (none / 0) (#76)
    by jondee on Mon May 04, 2015 at 11:37:37 AM EST
    that some family somewhere got free healthcare.

    Parent
    Sad sack stories (none / 0) (#77)
    by Mordiggian 88 on Mon May 04, 2015 at 12:01:15 PM EST

    JOHNSON: Unfortunately, President Obama's response to an adverse decision -- in other words one that actually follows the law -- would be really simple. Just a one-sentence bill allowing people's subsidies to flow to federal exchanges and/or offer the governors, `Hey, we know you got those federal exchanges. Just sign the bottom line. We'll make those established by the state.' And of course, he'll have the ads all racked up with the individuals that have benefited from Obamacare on the backs of the American taxpayer. He'll have all those examples as well so...

    WEBER: And the sad sack stories about who's dying from what and why they can't get their coverage.

    JOHNSON: Right.

    Sen Johnson of WI in a recent radio interview.

    And yes, if some people are more worried over who paying for medical care rather than the fact that we spend 2X per capita on health care to get the same health outcome as in other developed nations, then let them b*tch about it, we know whT side they're on.

    Parent

    No, you ask me to comment on something (none / 0) (#74)
    by jimakaPPJ on Sat May 02, 2015 at 10:55:39 PM EST
    a politician said.

    Since I have no idea as to what he said or what your opinion is then I really can't comment.

    Parent

    As far as Robert Heinlein's (none / 0) (#79)
    by jondee on Tue May 05, 2015 at 11:56:16 AM EST
    "free lunch" bullshite, I've had plenty of free lunches in my life, and the woods and parks in early May are a free banquet..

    Parent
    Stupidest video ever (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by Yman on Fri May 01, 2015 at 12:13:21 PM EST
    I guess that's "How conservatives argue".

    Parent
    Oh, (none / 0) (#41)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 01, 2015 at 08:12:43 AM EST
    man that is rich. Hiding behind Jesus is just fine as long as you're using Jesus to further your agenda.

    Parent
    The (none / 0) (#32)
    by FlJoe on Fri May 01, 2015 at 05:37:10 AM EST
    idea of debating zombies does sound like comedy gold.

    Parent
    I (none / 0) (#31)
    by FlJoe on Fri May 01, 2015 at 05:33:03 AM EST
    should have said no "non-undead" ideas, in other words its's all zombie all the time.

    Parent
    Uhhhhh, Sanders is running as a Demo (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Militarytracy on Fri May 01, 2015 at 06:59:21 AM EST
    The Demos have started laying out their ideas. Where's the Repub ideas?  They've thrown a few down, so far the only place you could get elected with those ideas is Hades.

    Parent
    Agreed. (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by KeysDan on Fri May 01, 2015 at 09:13:15 AM EST
    That is why, I feel, that the Republicans focus on personalities, s%x, Jesus.   No ideas, at least none that they can present.  Hard to run on "Elect me and I promise to do nothing."    

    Parent
    None (none / 0) (#49)
    by Ga6thDem on Fri May 01, 2015 at 09:53:25 AM EST
    they can present is the operative word. Because once they start talking they sound just like George W. Bush. So they take the lazy way and talk about personalities.

    Parent
    I Think Their Big Idea... (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by ScottW714 on Fri May 01, 2015 at 09:52:42 AM EST
    ...is to repeal ASA.  Maybe the only one they all agree on, well except hating Hillary/Obama, but that isn't really an idea.

    Lowering taxes with no plan is another.

    Of course the cultural BS, jesus, sinful queers, and saving zygotes.  And as usual, their dislike of Mexicans will be on the back burning while they try to garner the hispanic vote.

    Parent

    The Middle East Policy of President Sanders (none / 0) (#78)
    by Mr Natural on Tue May 05, 2015 at 10:10:30 AM EST
    - speculation by Juan Cole

    Bernie Sanders will run on the issues, not the nonsense | 79 comments (79 topical)

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