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Sunday Night Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 07:09:43 PM EST
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104 degrees today, another record broken. The town of Manitou Springs, outside of Colorado Springs, was evacuated today due to the spreading Waldo Canyon Fire. More than 11,000 people have been ordered to leave their homes.

All eyes will be on the Supreme Court this week, as the fate of the Affordable Care Act and Arizona's Immigration law will be decided. Also this week: A decision on whether life without parole for juveniles violates the 8th Amendment ban on cruel and unusual punishment.

This is an open thread, all topics welcome.

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    Sunday Night Open Thread | 56 comments (56 topical)

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    I cannot believe it hasn't (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Ga6thDem on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 07:40:35 PM EST
    been frying here though it has been hot but not as hot as past years it seems.

    I hope all our... (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by DebFrmHell on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 09:01:01 PM EST
    friends in Colorado stay safe and sound.  I love Manitou Springs and Colorado Springs.  I had high hopes of living there at one time.

    Manitou Springs evacuation order (none / 0) (#14)
    by Peter G on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 10:11:50 PM EST
    lifted at 8 pm local time Sunday evening.

    Parent
    Aloha from Tokyo! (5.00 / 2) (#18)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 11:22:15 PM EST
    It's 66 degrees and mostly cloudy, which makes for a pleasant day. It's looked like it's going to ran for most of the day (it's 1:00 p.m. Monday, Tokyo time), but thus far it's held off.

    We visited the Royal Palace yesterday, and are going to the Ginza this afternoon. The spouse and I have been here separately on business prior to this trip, but this is everyone else's initial trip to Tokyo, so we're all touring the city for the first time. It's a fascinating place.

    We leave for Honolulu Wednesday morning, arriving Tuesday afternoon. It's been a fun trip, but honestly, I'll be happy to be home.

    Take care, everyone.

    Debbie Does Tampa (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by SuzieTampa on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 12:51:18 AM EST
    In the Tampa Bay area, we've had nonstop rain from Tropical Storm Debbie. There's a lot of flooding in coastal areas, with trees down. There have been high winds, including a few tornadoes.

    I'm safe, but I've bewildered my Chihuahua. She acquiesced to her raincoat this morning, but no way was she going to "potty" in the rain. Later, when a tornado siren went off, I grabbed her and the bedspread and got in the bathtub. This really weirded her out.

    The rain is supposed to continue till Tuesday.

    Here too in Orlando (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 06:24:35 AM EST
    Not much wind where I am, but it is still raining after going all day yesterday.  Debby go away!

    My goldens don't mind much -they have a doggie door and can go out and do their business. No walk this morning though, so the young one will be pretty wound up when I get home from work.

    Parent

    It is 70 degrees in Cardiff. (none / 0) (#1)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 07:17:47 PM EST
    I mistakenly arrived two hrs. early to meet "W"'s head of the NEA, Dana Gioia, who will read his poetry and the poetry of others.

    Fortunately, there is a Starbucks nearby.  

    Dana was a college classmate (none / 0) (#2)
    by Peter G on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 07:36:43 PM EST
    of my wife's.  We've met a few times.  Great poet, inspiring teacher, and very interesting, very bright guy.

    Parent
    72 here in my little nook on the bay (none / 0) (#6)
    by nycstray on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 08:20:30 PM EST
    I so don't miss long hot summers :)

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    Here's my upcoming forecast: (none / 0) (#7)
    by Angel on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 08:45:20 PM EST
    http://i45.tinypic.com/2q1w6sy.jpg

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    What an exaggeration! ! (none / 0) (#21)
    by NYShooter on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 12:17:07 AM EST
    Not a degree over 150:)


    Parent
    In the heat and humidity down this way one has to (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 07:16:38 AM EST
    maintain a sense of humor!

    Parent
    His wife is a childhood (none / 0) (#3)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 07:40:21 PM EST
    and close friend of my former colleague.  I am looking forward to meeting them both.  

    Sandusky case tape snafu: (none / 0) (#5)
    by oculus on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 07:48:33 PM EST
    (Toronto Sunhttp://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/24/sandusky-lawyers-may-use-tape-error-in-appeal)

    Pretty sloppy lawyering on both sides. My opinion.  

    3 straight days of record heat. (none / 0) (#9)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 09:23:10 PM EST
    All 100+.  Three more days of that on the way  Did I move to AZ and not realize it?  

    Eight active large fires in the state and no rain--or even high humidity and cooler weather in sight.  Gusty winds and dry lighting strikes.  Tinder dry and plenty of beetle kill.  Not good.  

    I'm sure I'll hear later tonight that it was wet and in the 60's in Seattle today.  

    I was talking with my brother (none / 0) (#11)
    by sj on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 09:34:15 PM EST
    last night about those fires.  A close family friend who lives near Poudre Canyon has been evacuated from his home for the second time.

    Parent
    If they still have a house... (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 09:55:48 PM EST
    they're one of the lucky ones.  We've been working the disaster recovery center up there and hearing the stories of those people who have lost everything is heartbreaking.

    Parent
    I can't imagine (none / 0) (#16)
    by sj on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 10:41:50 PM EST
    I grew up not far from there.  I don't know how to feel being so far away from it all.

    Parent
    The scary thing is that its only June. (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by MileHi Hawkeye on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 11:21:49 PM EST
    They're saying we might get a shift in the jet stream and get some rain in late July/early August.  I hope its not too little, too late.  

    Yeah, its hard.  I remember the Iowa floods of '08 and being so far away.

    Such a beautiful area up there too.   Love seeing shows at the Mishawaka!

    Parent

    We were heartbroken last night (none / 0) (#30)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 08:29:07 AM EST
    We shopped for a house in Woodland Park, and we were very close to closing on one when we found out that Joshua probably should not move to a higher elevation because he has a chiari malformation and sometimes people with it are unable to make red blood cell adjustments appropriately for making moves to very high elavations.

    We love the area though.  Would have liked to retire there, but maybe not with the wildfire risks that are seeming to go hand in hand with global warming.

    Parent

    Global warming? What global warming? (none / 0) (#32)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 09:12:23 AM EST
    http://tinyurl.com/bushglobalwarming

    Parent
    Thank you (none / 0) (#19)
    by DebFrmHell on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 11:24:01 PM EST
    for helping those in need.

    Parent
    Watching HBO's "The Newsroom," (none / 0) (#10)
    by Anne on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 09:31:40 PM EST
    Aaron Sorkin's latest, with Jeff Daniels and Sam Waterston.

    Am liking it, so far!

    Oh good! (none / 0) (#12)
    by nycstray on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 09:46:15 PM EST
    Looking forward to catching that one :)

    Parent
    Read a review (none / 0) (#15)
    by Towanda on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 10:12:30 PM EST
    in New Yorker, I think, that said it starts strong but is not so good by the third episode.

    I'm hoping that reviewer was wrong, as this looks like it could be the sort of series that I love, for lots of reasons.  

    Parent

    I mostly liked it too (none / 0) (#24)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 06:27:18 AM EST
    Worth watching anyway!

    Parent
    It was very Aaron Sorkin - where you (none / 0) (#25)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 06:48:21 AM EST
    dare not look away for fear of missing something, and where there are a lot of people talking rapidly and almost on top of each other - which I think of as being more "real life" - and throwing out asides you can't figure out because you don't "know" these people - yet.

    I'll definitely keep watching - we'll see whether is can maintain the quality, and whether the critique that it doesn't is as valid for us average viewers as it is for the critics!

    Parent

    The opener was very strong and (none / 0) (#43)
    by brodie on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 09:54:26 AM EST
    so gets the coveted Brodie official seal of approval.

    Daniels, Waterston and Emily Mortimer are all outstanding and play interesting characters.

    I like the rapid paced exchanges, and appreciate that the director kept all the trendy nonsense with the shaky hand held camera and playing with the focus to a bare minimum.  He even kept a few lights on so you could actually see the actors.

    Well done.  I'm on board.

    Parent

    I absolutely HATE the dark that most of (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Anne on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 11:06:43 AM EST
    these shows are filmed in...

    I first noticed it some years ago, when the original CSI started; it never failed that they team would go to a crime scene in someone's house, at night, and not a single one of these forensic technicians would ever turn the house lights on - flashlights were the only light by which they would work.  Ridiculous.

    Then, other shows started doing it.  Suddenly, offices and courtrooms and even medical settings, it seems, were all filmed as if the people working in them could do a bang-up job with little more than night lights for illumination.

    Yes, it keeps one's focus on the dialogue, but it just bugs me.

    Parent

    I always laugh about that (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 11:12:08 AM EST
    I live crime and cop shows (shocking, I know).  But any time there is a crime committed in a hospital, they always show the perp sneaking in and going down a dark hallway to the victim's room.  Anyone I've ever known who has had overnight stays in a hospital will tell you that it's hard to sleep because the lights from the hallway are shining in, nurses come in to check you at all hours of the night, and there is noise from the nurse's station!

    Parent
    And here my husband and I thought we were the (none / 0) (#47)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 11:13:16 AM EST
    only ones annoyed with the dark filming.  We're not crazy after all.

    Parent
    OMG yes. I hate it too (none / 0) (#55)
    by ruffian on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 01:28:04 PM EST
    Can't watch most of the CSI type show. Even their offices and labs are dark.

    Parent
    What about (none / 0) (#57)
    by NYShooter on Tue Jun 26, 2012 at 12:10:50 AM EST
    When the two detectives (it's always two detectives) go to a person's workplace during the investigation? Notice that the employee never stops operating his forklift, unloading a truck, or sweeping the floor, even for a second. I mean, here they are, investigating a murder, and the employee is so conscientious wiping down a table they can't stop for a second when answering the detectives?

    I can't help but laugh as the two detectives run down the street, following the person they're trying to question like puppy dogs, and don't simply say, "will you please stop for a minute, this is a murder we're talking about!


    Parent

    R.I.P, Louise Brown (1948-2012). (none / 0) (#20)
    by Donald from Hawaii on Sun Jun 24, 2012 at 11:39:56 PM EST
    The procedure's so commonplace nowadays, that it seems like ages ago that Louise Brown became an international celebrity of sorts, by becoming the first woman to successfully carry to term a child that was conceived in vitro. She gave birth to daughter Lesley in July 1978.

    British media has reported that Louise, 64, died last week after a short illness. She was preceded in death by her husband John (who died in 1007), and is survived by daughters Lesley and Natalie (who in 1982 became the 40th baby to be conceived in vitro and carried to term) and several grandchildren.

    Condolences to the Brown family. Their mother and grandmother was a pioneer and trailblazer, who along with her husband took a lot of grief from religious conservatives for their decision. The family should be proud of both of them.

    all this time... (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by unitron on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 07:05:20 AM EST
    ...I thought Louise was the name of the TTB, not the mother.

    If you're right about her husband John dying in 1007, that would explain the need for in vitro, but not how they kept the sperm viable for a millennium.

    : - )

    Parent

    Lesley was the mother, Louise the baby. (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 07:15:35 AM EST


    Parent
    The Montana campaign finance law (none / 0) (#31)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 09:08:27 AM EST
    Summarily Reversed by the Supreme Court (no details - watching a live blog on Scotusblog).

    Also, SC held that the Eighth Amendment prohibits life imprisonment without the possibility of  parole for juveniles.

    Opinions (none / 0) (#33)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 09:16:04 AM EST
    Montana campaign finance law - per curiam and Breyer writes the dissent

    Miller v. Alabama - the juvenile / LWOP case. Kagan writes the opinion, Alito dissents (and is reciting his dissent on the record.

    Parent

    Arizona v. US (none / 0) (#34)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 09:19:02 AM EST
    The Ninth Circuit reversed in part, affirmed in part.  Kagan does not participate.  Sections 3, 5, and 6 are pre-empted.  

    Parent
    Decision (none / 0) (#35)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 09:21:10 AM EST
    Arizona v. US

    Parent
    Quote from SCOTUSblog (none / 0) (#38)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 09:30:27 AM EST
    The upshot of the SB1070 ruling is that, for now, Arizona can apply the "check your papers" provision.  And the Court's opinion is a guide to the State on how to apply that provision without being invalidated.


    Parent
    Thanks for keeping us posted on these decisions. (none / 0) (#36)
    by Angel on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 09:21:58 AM EST


    Parent
    You're welcome! (none / 0) (#37)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 09:26:58 AM EST
    Probably no ACA decision today.

    But in the Arizona v. US, Scalia dissented (I'm shocked).

    Parent

    ACA and other remaning decisions (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by Peter G on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 09:44:07 AM EST
    will be released at 10 am EDT Thursday.  Arizona case is much more favorable to federal power (and restrictive to the states' efforts to inject themselves into immigration enforcement) than many anticipated.  The Court's 5-3 decision mostly invalidates the Arizona law (and by implication much of the Alabama and Georgia laws, imho).

    Parent
    I have a question: (none / 0) (#44)
    by sj on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 10:58:21 AM EST
    Also, SC held that the Eighth Amendment prohibits life imprisonment without the possibility of  parole for juveniles.

    Naturally I applaud this decision, but can prosecutors get around this by using the tactic of charging juveniles as an adult?

    Parent
    In both of these cases (none / 0) (#48)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 11:14:52 AM EST
    The juveniles were charged as adults, so my guess is that, no, there are no loopholes like that.

    And the way the holding is worded:

    The Eighth Amendment forbids a sentencing scheme that mandates life in prison without possibility of parole for juvenile homicide offenders.

    Leads me to believe that trying to get around the limitation would fall under "sentencing scheme".

    But I could be wrong.

    Parent

    More from the opinion (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 11:15:57 AM EST
    Kagan writes:

    We therefore hold that mandatory life without parole for those under the age of 18 at the time of their crimes violates the Eighth Amendment's prohibition on "cruel and unusual punishments."

    That seems pretty black and white to me.

    Parent

    thank you (none / 0) (#49)
    by sj on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 11:15:52 AM EST


    Parent
    There's probably a couple of ... (none / 0) (#52)
    by magster on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 11:19:00 AM EST
    ... corporate loving opinions that Kagan and Sotomayor have ruled in favor for, but it seems like they've both been solidly not conservative on the big cases they've been a part of.

    Parent
    YES...then compare & contrast (none / 0) (#54)
    by christinep on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 12:06:06 PM EST
    With the "dependable" rightist / beyond conservative trio of Scalia, Thomas, & Alito.  That trio is becoming so predictable that even in the humaneness quotient that is the evolving 8th, there is no forging of anything but their own earlier century world. (Or, as in the Arizona case they forego even traditional conservative judicial philosophy--such as the classic conservative affinity  for upholding federal government preemption & authority in national security tinged matters that comprise border /immigration structure--in order to swipe at the Administration.  See Scalia.)

    The very real contrast.... Lifetime appointments matter.

    Parent

    Unbelievable (none / 0) (#56)
    by Militarytracy on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 05:34:03 PM EST


    Parent
    does income tax amendment to constitution (none / 0) (#39)
    by Steve27 on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 09:36:27 AM EST
    negate the commerce clause?  

    As I understand it, the commerce clause of the constitution is being used to justify a possible overruling of the insurance mandate of Obama care. That the constitution prohibits the government from requiring people to buy a specific product. Which I kind of agree with. Not the constitution part of it, but just in general, government should not force people to buy things.

    But it does force people to buy things. And more important, constitution wise, the income tax amendment to the constitution seems to give the government all sorts of authority to direct a citizens expenditures in ways it wants. So maybe the democrats should be arguing that the commerce clause was superceded when the constitution was ammended to allow an income tax.

    Well (5.00 / 2) (#40)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 09:43:00 AM EST
    Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution lays out the enumerated powers of Congress.  The first one being:

    The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defence[note 1] and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

    And then if you go to the third clause, it says:

    To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

    so, since the framers wrote that Congress has both those powers, and they put them in the same Article and Section of the Constitution, it seems that your argument would not make sense.

    Parent

    constitution was amended (none / 0) (#51)
    by Steve27 on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 11:17:00 AM EST
    to allow the income tax. I am asking if it can be argued that the power to tax income supercedes the commerce clause.


    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#53)
    by jbindc on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 11:23:05 AM EST
    It is an equal enumerated power.

    And who would bring suit?  The Supreme Court has ruled that individual taxpayers cannot bring suit because they want to direct how their tax dollars are being spent.

    Parent

    This sort of question was much debated (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Peter G on Mon Jun 25, 2012 at 09:46:08 AM EST
    during the period of ratification.  Re-read the Federalist Papers, and Jefferson's contrary opinion.

    Parent
    Sunday Night Open Thread | 56 comments (56 topical)

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