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iBama: Was Obama Like Apple?

Via Kevin Drum, The Audacity of Mac:

[Apple is] a religion of hope in a hopeless world, hope that your ordinary and mortal life can be elegant and meaningful [. . .]

Drum properly mocks this sentence. My title is just me playing headline writer (revised title h/t Robot Porter), but I do wonder how much "Creative Class" there is in all of this.

Speaking for me only

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  • Display: Sort:
    The Audacity of Hype. (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 01:30:15 PM EST
    (Not a Mac owner.)

    I am a Mac owner, but I like it anyway (none / 0) (#6)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 01:36:36 PM EST
    How's this? "MacObama Air" (none / 0) (#11)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 01:51:26 PM EST
    Connected to nothing but the ether (none / 0) (#21)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:13:43 PM EST
    `or better: ....nothing but the cloud (none / 0) (#22)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:14:22 PM EST
    umm (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by CST on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 01:32:11 PM EST
    "A magical and revolutionary president at an unbelievable price."

    Obama, the Vista of Presidents (5.00 / 2) (#4)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 01:35:17 PM EST
    More appropriate title.

    We were sold on a bill of goods that was delivered with numerous programing compromises that all but negated the promised improvements.

    In the end scrapped because users moved along to a more reliable system.

    Apple is better for the economy :) (5.00 / 3) (#5)
    by nycstray on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 01:35:48 PM EST


    "Dreams of Jobs" (5.00 / 5) (#7)
    by lilburro on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 01:38:00 PM EST


    iBama: the entire Republican agenda in your pocket (5.00 / 3) (#8)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 01:47:39 PM EST


    For those seeking inspiration (5.00 / 4) (#9)
    by vicndabx on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 01:50:52 PM EST
    from teh Wiki:

    List of Apple Slogans

    While I don't agree w/the implications of these, responding to the challenge nonetheless:

    This changes nothing. Again

    or my personal favorite, taken directly from Apple:

    "You can't be too thin, Or too powerful"

    "Teeny doesn't mean weeny!" (5.00 / 2) (#12)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 01:57:13 PM EST
    here we go (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by CST on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:01:08 PM EST
    The president for everyone. Now with more speed, power, and battery life.

    Obama 2012 - The first president to beat Obama 2008.

    Parent

    the more I think about it (none / 0) (#16)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:05:39 PM EST
    the more is makes sense though.  most people buy a mac because they are so sick and tired of the "other".  then they find out the mac world is not a magical place after all.


    Parent
    Oh, But it is! (none / 0) (#133)
    by rennies on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 09:33:10 AM EST
    Compared to Microsoft.

    Parent
    Hippie punching--there's an app for that! (5.00 / 6) (#17)
    by steviez314 on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:10:48 PM EST


    Ha! (none / 0) (#25)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:20:20 PM EST
    I've been trying to come up with an app I can (none / 0) (#35)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:31:58 PM EST
    write. Maybe a little hippie puncher! I'll share the royalties.

    Parent
    For the record I am playing along with the (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:16:14 PM EST
    Mac joking....but I love my Apple products a lot more than I love Obama. They have never let me down.

    Get better Steve.

    But I do join Drum in mocking that sentence (none / 0) (#24)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:19:02 PM EST
    and the whole article. I know a lot of people that love their Apple products - none of whom are remotely cultish about it, or assign it any more spiritual significance than their choice in cars.

    Parent
    I always wanted (none / 0) (#26)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:21:12 PM EST
    to be a cultist.  but to much of my professional life revolves around Microsoft.  I can never leave it behind.

    Parent
    The car analogy is good. Observation: (none / 0) (#28)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:21:53 PM EST
    my friends who were early-Obama adopters are big fans of Macs. And prone to proselytize re both.  And drive a Prius (and brag about it).

    Parent
    That's funny (none / 0) (#33)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:29:28 PM EST
    I guess there are enough people like that to make the stereotype stick.

    I'm just not a proselytizer. People have to make me show them my new toys.

    I have used the car analogy a lot. No one thinks anything of it if someone buys one car over another because they prefer the features, styling, whatever.  But if you prefer a Mac you are all of a sudden an elitist cult member.

    Parent

    Had a similar discussion last week (none / 0) (#41)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:56:20 PM EST
    Another observation: I have never seen a Mini with a Republican bumper sticker here in St. Louis. They either go naked or have Obama stickers on them.

    Definitely agree on the Prius statement.

    Parent

    Most of my friends are Mac fans, (none / 0) (#135)
    by rennies on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 09:35:34 AM EST
    many do drive a Prius, but all supported Hillary. Of course, most are women.

    Parent
    how bout this one for '12 (5.00 / 1) (#32)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:28:32 PM EST
    "This changes everything. Again"

    One More Thing (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:30:39 PM EST
    And betamax was far superior... (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by Dadler on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:09:14 PM EST
    ...to VHS.

    Both are now distant memories.

    You know what endures?

    Passion for the game.

    Be it politics, athletics, life in general.

    BTW, creative class?  I'm reminded of a seinfeld episode in which George speaks of not wanting to compromise his artistic integrity. To which Jerry replies: "You're not artistic, and you have no integrity."  

    The IPhone (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:52:02 PM EST
    The IPhone is great at the bells and whistles, but has only mediocre phone voice quality. Yes, the product that calls itself a phone isn't that great of a phone.

    The president is great at being a politician and a motivational speaker, but not that great as a president.  The product that calls itself a president isn't that great of a president.

    And no, I don't own any mac products.  I find them overpriced for what they are, a little too "control freakish" for my tastes and far too trendy and cute...just like certain politicians.

    I've never been one to jump on any kind of bandwagon.  The fact that "everyone is doing it" has always been an excellent reason for me to avoid it.  The IPresident concept will NEVER work for me, no matter who it is.

    Other 3G+ phones (none / 0) (#96)
    by BackFromOhio on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 08:16:52 PM EST
    also have mediocre phone/voice quality too.  

    Parent
    a taste (5.00 / 1) (#88)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 05:28:43 PM EST
    That is too cute! (none / 0) (#91)
    by vml68 on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 05:38:14 PM EST
    The Audacity of Mac (none / 0) (#1)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 01:12:24 PM EST
    Better title?

    I was torn.

    I wanted to put Obama in the title.

    Write an alternate title to this post.

    iBAma ... (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 04:13:49 PM EST
    with the lowercase "i".

    Parent
    FTW (none / 0) (#79)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 04:21:01 PM EST
    Is Obama Like Microsoft? (none / 0) (#18)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:11:52 PM EST
    Doesn't work (none / 0) (#27)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:21:30 PM EST
    true (none / 0) (#29)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:22:14 PM EST
    much more macish

    Parent
    thought I was getting an iMac (none / 0) (#10)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 01:51:08 PM EST
    but it turned out to be a A RadioShack TRS-80

    Off Note (none / 0) (#49)
    by ScottW714 on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:16:04 PM EST
    That TRS-80 comment just brought back a flood of junior high memories, cassette deck back-up and the program 'Man' were revolutionary in the early 80's.

    Parent
    You're still a mere puppy (none / 0) (#83)
    by Zorba on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 04:57:06 PM EST
    When I was in college in the late 60's, I worked one summer for a large mid-Western firm in their computer department.  The computers were as large as refrigerators.  They used punch cards, magnetic tapes, and disk storage units as large as wedding cakes.   ;-)  

    Parent
    we are the same era (none / 0) (#85)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 05:10:38 PM EST
    my first professional computer imaging job was for General Electric/Genegraphics.  the computers were the size of refrigerators and they used the wedding cake disks.  I still have some in a closet someplace.
    we sat at something called a "console" which was really just what would  now be a desktop style computer in a plastic case that looked a little like the bridge of the starship enterprise.
    that started in oct of 1979.


    Parent
    The kids these days (none / 0) (#86)
    by Zorba on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 05:21:15 PM EST
    Don't even realize that the power in one of their laptops is far greater than one of those huge "refrigerators."  How far we've come.

    Parent
    no kidding (none / 0) (#87)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 05:27:46 PM EST
    or that a ford tarus has more computing power than the apollo series space vehicles.


    Parent
    Captain, (none / 0) (#89)
    by Zorba on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 05:34:35 PM EST
    All of a sudden, I'm feeling really, really old.   ;-)

    Parent
    its funny (none / 0) (#90)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 05:37:56 PM EST
    because Genigraphics was actually put out of business by home computers.  it was really a slide maker.  meaning photo type slides. for big computer controlled shows.  once people had desktop computers and were able to make their own slides there was no niche for that business.


    Parent
    I wonder how many (none / 0) (#92)
    by Zorba on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 06:21:20 PM EST
    businesses have gone belly up because of the power of current computers and technology?  How about photography businesses and photographers?  I know lots of young people who have dispensed with "wedding photographers" in favor of friends taking pictures with digital cameras and producing really quite stunning wedding albums.  My husband does his own power-point presentations, and if he needs slides, he does them himself, as you said.

    Parent
    I don't know... (none / 0) (#14)
    by Anne on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:04:04 PM EST
    Was Obama Like Apple, but if not, I'm guessing he can Haz Cheezeburger now...

    Computers are like cars (none / 0) (#15)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:04:40 PM EST
    The one you have problems with is the worst ever invented/built...

    My first Mac could do anything I asked it to except stay out of the repair shop.

    Thus I begged to come back to The Church of PC.

    "Insanely Great!" (none / 0) (#19)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:12:07 PM EST
    Somehow I can't seen Obama using that slogan.

    But there is something Mac-ish about Obama.  And, like Mac products, people seem more excited about the concept than the actuality.  

    exactly (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:13:04 PM EST
    the 2008 campaign was just like going into a mac store.   all new and shiny.

    Parent
    You muar be a PC user (none / 0) (#136)
    by rennies on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 09:37:40 AM EST
    Courtesy of brainquote: (none / 0) (#30)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:26:24 PM EST
    Apple is in a position they've been in a lot of times before. They're like Moses showing the way to the promised land, but they don't actually go there.
    Tim O'Reilly


    The 40 years of wandering? (none / 0) (#31)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:27:31 PM EST
    Pres. Obama seemingly never loses (none / 0) (#36)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:32:40 PM EST
    his temper.  Maybe he'll make it all the way.

    Parent
    Some interesting related (none / 0) (#37)
    by lilburro on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:44:49 PM EST
    statistics...half of all cell phone users will have smartphones by the end of 2011 (Nielsen).  Smartphone market share.  The growth of smartphones amazes me.  

    Got rid of daily newspaper/gym/ (none / 0) (#53)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:23:03 PM EST
    cable.  Next target:  Blackberry.  Can't do it.

    Parent
    Maybe this (none / 0) (#76)
    by lilburro on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 04:16:26 PM EST
    will bolster your confidence:  Wired Magazine.

    Parent
    Or... (none / 0) (#77)
    by lilburro on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 04:17:51 PM EST
    perhaps the format will only contribute to your ambivalence!

    Parent
    Given the Obama Punching (none / 0) (#38)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:44:56 PM EST
    I shamelessly present Obama's current poll numbers showing that he continues to do well.  For all of the hateraid, he just breached the 50% approval barrier:

    http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/gallup-daily-obama-job-approval.aspx

    The gap between where he is now and where Clinton was is growing, and people honestly expect him to heed the demands of his lefty haters?  C'mon.  Why on earth should he bow down to the left right now.  They are on his back regardless of what he does it seems to me. While the independents and moderates are actually responding to his actions.

    If he had the full support of the left, I actually think it would go further in getting him to push the positions the left desires.

    If they are going to call his signature piece of legislation a benefit for Wall Street, forget 'em.

    Pay attention to the people who can be swayed.

    "full support of the left" (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:59:39 PM EST
    its a 2 way street

    Parent
    It is a 2 way street (none / 0) (#50)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:19:26 PM EST
    He gave them the most progressive legislation in 50 years and the crapped on him for it.  He repealed DADT and they pretended it wasn't a monumental social change. He saved two of the largest union employers in the nation and thousands of union jobs and they said he was helping Wall Street.

    Hate to say it, but he owes them nothing given the way he's been treated IMHO.  

    Clinton took a more moderate path and is one of our most beloved Presidents.

    The Left has given him no reason to try a different path.

    Parent

    Re: Beloved (5.00 / 2) (#54)
    by vicndabx on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:25:30 PM EST
    The "left" hated Clinton the exact same way - I remember.  At some point in the future, the "left" will come to adore the prez the same way - when it's politically expedient to do so.

    Parent
    well (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:25:41 PM EST
    he signed the repeal of DADT.  it was congress that repealed it.  and I did not even give them much credit because it was made clear to them by the SecDef that if they did not do it, on their schedule, it would be done for them on the courts schedule.
    personally I gave him more credit than some for the auto deal.  I think it was a good thing.
    as far as "the most progressive legislation in 50" I guess that is the health care reform thing.
    that, afaiac, is very much TBD.  and IMO he could have done a hell of a lot more than he did for the cause of a public option which he campaigned on relentlessly.

    Parent
    however (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:45:03 PM EST
    I do give him a certain amount of credit.
    because
    some time ago when I was reaching the end of my tether as they say I said if he allowed McCain to block it with all the momentum it had I was done with him.  it passed.  and since I was ready to blame him, I was, I understand that I must give him some credit.  and I do.

    Parent
    Howdy (none / 0) (#98)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 08:35:53 PM EST
    You are kind of making my point.

    Parent
    Howdy (none / 0) (#102)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 08:49:19 PM EST
    to be more specific, Obama did things in the first two years that many believed were impossible.

    And the credit is so tepid as to be almost non-existent.

    I don't know. I still think that if you listed everything that Obama accomplished in the first ten years and gave that list to the American public in 2008, we'd all have been thrilled. And that's with an explanation of the stuff like gitmo, the wars, etc. that he didn't do.

    Dude put two women on the supreme court (one of whom was a latina) and people don't even remember it when they list his accomplishments.

    So much has happened that we actually forget accomplishments that would have been ground breaking for a POTUS over a 4 year term.

    He hasn't been in office for two years people.

    Parent

    You know who presses the hardest for Apple (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 04:15:17 PM EST
    product improvement? The so called 'fanboys'. Read the Apple blogs and you will see that they are never satisfied with the product, no matter how good they think it is. There is always something else they want. And Apple listens to them and responds with continuous improvement. They don't say 'well, screw you, I'm going to design my products for the larger multitude of people satisfied with less than the best instead.' That is the attitude of a different company.

    Parent
    "Fanboys" (none / 0) (#99)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 08:38:29 PM EST
    Push Apple for improvements, but when Zune owners try to talk smack, the rally around Apple as if they had a disease and their Ipods held the antidote.

    In other words, they understand the difference between internal squabbles and requests and the larger battle of helping Apple to rule the world.

    That's what it means to be a fanboy. Hence the name fanboy.

    Parent

    True - and I defend Obama against Republicans (none / 0) (#128)
    by ruffian on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 07:56:31 AM EST
    when he does something they don't like. I just wish it was more often. Personally, I have no regrets voting for him, and I do take note of his accomplishments.

    I know where you are coming from - when I read the fanboys critiques of their brand new iPhones part of me wants to say - 'hey, you have the most progressive phone in 50 years. Can't you just enjoy it for a couple of weeks before you start criticizing it?'

    Parent

    OMG you sound as whiny and petulant (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by Anne on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 08:00:41 PM EST
    as Obama does: "nothing I do is ever good enough for you, so why should I even try?"

    A significant portion of "the left" helped get Obama where he is today; that seems like the kind of thing for which he would be grateful enough that he would feel somewhat compelled to give them not just what they want, but what he campaigned on doing once he was elected.

    This "most progressive" legislation to which you refer?  Come on, ABG - how many times do we have to go over this?  The Affordable Care Act is not proving to make anything more affordable - it's affording a lot of insurance companies the opportunity to ratchet up premiums in exchange for reducing coverage, but if either actual care or the insurance that's supposed to be a bridge to that care are becoming less expensive, that would be news to me - and to the millions who can't afford insurance and who are skimping on care because they can't afford that, either.  What would have been "progressive," and a sign Obama and the Dems had any balls at all, would have been to design legislation that would have gone into effect in total within one year - but they wimped out, choosing to put together something that treated this "crisis" as if the people affected by it could wait four years for any help at all.  It was the equivalent of designing a 911 system using tin cans and string.

    DADT?  That was activists, not Obama.  This is the same Obama whose DOJ is filing amicus briefs in support of DOMA - see anything inconsistent there?  The man clearly isn't comfortable with the gays, just as he isn't comfortable allowing women to make their own health decisions.  

    And, please, Clinton is wholly irrelevant to this or any Obama discussion; his poll numbers, approval ratings - it's meaningless.

    As for the left giving him no reason to try a different path, that's just crap.  Millions of people gave this man their hard-earned money, knocked on doors, made phone calls, drank the Kool-Aid, and they did it for this "change" thing Obama promised.  They did it because he said he was opposed to the actions of the Bush administration, because he was going to be more transparent, because, because, because...it is he who owes the left, not the other way around.

    Obama has taken passive-aggressiveness to the next level; I'm thrilled that this works for you, but I'm pretty sure that Obama doeesn't give a crap about you, either, and one of these days, you, too, will reach a point where enough is enough, and you'll realize there is no changing him, no making-more-noise-so-he-will-listen, no maybe-if-we-are-really-really-nice-he-will-like-us that will make a difference.

    Some of us saw this a long, long time ago, and some - like me - couldn't cast a vote for him, or his GOP opponent.  And I don't think our numbers, heading into 2012, are decreasing.

    Parent

    Do you respect Paul Krugman? (none / 0) (#100)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 08:42:14 PM EST
    Are you arguing that Krugman is wrong?  He supported the legislation is far from an "Obamabot".  He is referenced with respect repeatedly around here when it is convenient (see tax cut commentary).

    How do you choose when to listen to him and when not to?  It's easy for me. On the economic points, I trust Krugman without reservation.  On political calculations, not so much.  So I agree with Krugman on the tax cut's effects but disagree with him on the political ramifications.

    How you address Krugman's complete refutation of your assertions?

    Parent

    There are times when Krugman is (none / 0) (#104)
    by Anne on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 08:52:24 PM EST
    spot-on, and other times when he is way off the mark; he missed on the health whatever legislation, big time.

    While I don't have any advanced degrees, or Nobel prizes, I am a reasonably intelligent person functioning among the common folk - known as "the real world" - and in my opinion, Krugman sold out on health system reform.

    He's not an oracle on all things, whom we disregard at our peril.

    Thinking for myself is a skill I take a fair amount of pride in; I refuse to substitute poll numbers and op-eds and pundit-speak for good old-fashioned thinking.

    Parent

    My Point Exactly (none / 0) (#107)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 08:57:54 PM EST
    and well put.

    In my world, Obamacare is a wonderful thing.  My world is this world:

    Link


    Parent

    You live in "Timothy Noah World"? (5.00 / 1) (#116)
    by Yman on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 09:25:17 PM EST
    In the real world, the number of Americans has grown to 50 million +, a new record.

    Thank goodness for Obamacare.

    Parent

    ..."uninsured"... (none / 0) (#138)
    by Yman on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 01:07:24 PM EST
    ... Americans.

    Parent
    Wait (none / 0) (#103)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 08:51:14 PM EST
    You didn't vote for Obama or McCain?

    I'm going to step out on a limb and say that Obama could realistically do nothing to get your support.

    Parent

    Neither of them deserved my vote. (none / 0) (#106)
    by Anne on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 08:57:15 PM EST
    And after holding my nose to vote in two prior elections, I simply could not do it again.

    As I have mentioned here on numerous occasions, no one wanted to be proved wrong about Obama more than I did; for you to state that there is nothing he could do to get my support is less going out on a limb than talking out of your hind end.

    Of course he could have done things to get my support, but he hasn't and I don't see the point of supporting someone against my interests.

    I won't be supporting a Republican under any circumstances, so don't be suggesting that denying Obama my support is the equivalent of voting GOP; it isn't.

    Parent

    Correct: it's the same as not voting (none / 0) (#108)
    by andgarden on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 09:00:16 PM EST
    For my own part, I always vote for the lesser of evils.  Yes, that enables them. No, there isn't any other reasonable alternative.

    Parent
    Hogwash, I say. It's a matter of conscience (none / 0) (#117)
    by shoephone on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 09:40:29 PM EST
    If both major candidates are unacceptable to a voter, why should that person be forced into supporting one? That resembles voter intimidation a lot more than it does democracy.

    Instead of voting for Clinton in '96, I voted for Nader. Does that make me a traitor to the party? Did I not "really" cast a vote?

    Parent

    Yes, you really did the (none / 0) (#118)
    by andgarden on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 09:45:56 PM EST
    same thing as not voting.

    Parent
    I respectfully, and vehemently, disagree (none / 0) (#121)
    by shoephone on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 09:53:50 PM EST
    The truth is, I just didn't vote the way you and the party would have wanted. By your logic, all those people who voted for Anderson in 1980 didn't "really" vote -- it was just their imagination! All those people who vote for Nader in 2000 didn't "really" vote -- it was just their imagination!  Let's ask kdog if he thinks that's true. I bet I already know the answer...

    Parent
    They all voted, but (none / 0) (#122)
    by andgarden on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 10:03:33 PM EST
    their votes had exactly the same effect as if they had not voted at all. They had all the information they needed to confirm this before they voted.

    Parent
    I'm unclear on what this means: (none / 0) (#123)
    by shoephone on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 10:12:35 PM EST
    "They had all the information they needed to confirm this before they voted." To confirm what? Voting for Nader is either a real vote or it isn't. If it isn't, then he isn't really a candidate, and his name should never have been printed on the election ballots. Same with all independent candidates, such as Anderson, and Perot. But in rare cases, voting for the independent candidate results in that person winning the election (case in point: Leiberman for Senate 2006).

    You still haven't approached the matter of voting one's conscience.

    Parent

    It was a real vote (none / 0) (#124)
    by andgarden on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 10:17:30 PM EST
    but they had absolutely no chance to vote for a winner. All knew this to be 100% true before they voted. (Incidentally, this is true in many races, even when voting for a major party candidate.)

    Parent
    I suppose the difference for me in 2008 (none / 0) (#130)
    by Anne on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 09:10:51 AM EST
    was that I wasn't reliably convinced that Obama was truly committed to the same kinds of bedrock Democratic principles I am, nor that he could be relied on to hold any positions long enough to see them through.

    And, truth be told, I live in a reliably blue state and knew that my one non-vote wasn't going to be the difference between having a Democrat in the WH or a Republican.  And as wary as I was, I truly had little idea that Obama would be fighting harder for Republican policies than Democratic ones, but once I saw that, I knew there was no way he was going to be able to come from that place to a reliably left of center position on much of anything.

    You know where I am on the lesser-of-two-evils thing.  That I don't know how we will ever get good quality candidates if we are always willing to vote for the one who is not as mediocre.  That constantly lowering the bar isn't getting us what we need or want.

    I'm not staying out of the voting booth altogether; I vote state and local and I vote Congressional.  But...I'm taking an enough-is-enough stand when I believe that the candidates I am presented with do not measure up.  

    My vote is all I have, and I'm tired of giving it to people who don't deserve it.

    Parent

    Fair Point (none / 0) (#109)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 09:01:26 PM EST
    I retract.

    There is nothing Obama could have done "in this political climate to get your vote."

    My guess is that the things you wanted from him would largely have been impossible to achieve.

    But in that case he'd have failed completely but made a good attempt and thus gained your support?

    Parent

    My guess is that ... (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by Yman on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 09:16:08 PM EST
    ... you define anything Obama won't fight for as "impossible to achieve", thus excusing both the lousy outcome and the failure to even attempt to live up to his campaign promises.

    A "two-fer".

    Parent

    Can definitely see your point :-( (5.00 / 2) (#69)
    by MO Blue on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:54:59 PM EST
    It is much better for Obama to continue to adopt Republican policies and pass their legislation since he has the full support of Republican voters.  

    Parent
    "Shameless" is right (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Yman on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 08:33:09 PM EST
    I shamelessly present Obama's current poll numbers showing that he continues to do well.  For all of the hateraid, he just breached the 50% approval barrier.

    50% approval - and his approval numbers are higher than his disapproval numbers - for almost a whole week, now.

    wow.

    Guess he gave a little speech.

    BTW - The gap between where he is now and where Clinton was is growing

    Uh, yeah ... no idea why this continues to matter to you, but keep dreaming.

    Parent

    And this is why (none / 0) (#134)
    by jbindc on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 09:34:16 AM EST
    We should be careful about throwing out poll numbers.

    From another poll that shows Obama up this week (my emphasis):

    But it is hardly time for the president to pop open the champagne. While the percentage of those saying the country is heading in the right direction is up 7 points from last month, a whopping 60 percent believe the US is headed seriously off on the wrong track.

    And the president is still under 50% when it comes to his handling of the economy, which 72% of all Americans say should be the highest priority for him and Congress.

    Perhaps the most troubling data point for the president - he and the Republicans are tied for the first time in trust to handle health care, with trust in Obama dropping 9 points since last month to a new low, and trust in the GOP gaining 4 points, rough news for the president in advance of the vote this week in the House to repeal the health care law.



    Parent
    Ah yes (none / 0) (#39)
    by lilburro on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:49:45 PM EST
    Clinton or Obama?  The political Mac vs. PC.

    Parent
    If we could joke (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by vicndabx on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:08:45 PM EST
    that'd be "PC" vs. Mack

    Parent
    "Appeasy v. McD's" n/t (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by lilburro on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:33:45 PM EST
    you can not (none / 0) (#42)
    by Capt Howdy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:58:23 PM EST
    do that to me

    Parent
    Heh (none / 0) (#44)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:05:28 PM EST
    Reaffirming my central point in blogging - pols are pols and do what they do.

    The religious ferocity of Obama's defenders is indeed like Mac supporters.

    To me, one's a pol and one's a computer.

    Nothing more.

    Parent

    "hateraid." Got to admit (none / 0) (#51)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:21:00 PM EST
    that's catchy.

    Parent
    Not new (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:21:44 PM EST
    Guess not: (none / 0) (#56)
    by oculus on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:25:41 PM EST
    How many here (none / 0) (#57)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:27:23 PM EST
    own an Iphone or an Ipad or a Mac?  I do and so do most of you.  And those that do have them love them despite whatever reservations they had at the start.

    Which brings us full circle.

    As with Apple, Obama's haters conveniently ignore the fact that Apple became the most successful cell phone, portable music, and music/video distributor in the world in less than a decade.  While Apple Haters were bashing, Apple was winning.

    The haters didn't realize that Steve Jobs had won until they were in the Apple Store looking at an IPad longingly like everyone else.  Actually, the Obama/Apple parallel looks better than I thought.

    [Yeah, I know. I am feeling especially pro-Obama today.  Sue me.]


    Parent

    It's a phone (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:37:38 PM EST
    And Obama is a pol.

    IF the phone screws up, you complain about it.

    Same for the pol.

    Parent

    I've had a Mac (none / 0) (#105)
    by andgarden on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 08:56:45 PM EST
    since before it was cool. I also have an iPhone. AND I voted for Obama. In all probability, I will do so again.

    But I don't pull my punches about any of the above.

    Parent

    That's completely fair (none / 0) (#110)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 09:04:55 PM EST
    and what I want to hear.

    Complain but rally against the real bad guys when called.

    Parent

    there are times to rally (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by CST on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 09:23:38 AM EST
    and times to push back.

    Now is the time to push back.

    You want to see some rallying?  That's election season, and it goes on long enough as it is.  No need to extend it.  But make no mistake, most of us are well aware of who the "real bad guys" are.

    Parent

    Reservations at the start? (5.00 / 1) (#71)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 04:10:38 PM EST
    I'm would not have paid $500 for an iPad if I had any reservations at the start. That is where the pol/computer analogy breaks down. I will always have some reservations about any pol I vote for. I know I'm hard on Obama - see the terrorism thread for the primary reason - but I do take your points.

    I see the next rev of the iPad is going to have much better display resolution...there is always room for product improvement.

    Parent

    is it possible (none / 0) (#60)
    by CST on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:31:05 PM EST
    To have a nuanced opinion here?

    I mean, I own an ipod, and it's all good... but then I went out and bought a PC, and a DROID because they were cheaper and the droid came with verizon service...

    Does that make me a hater or a lover?

    Parent

    Fickle (none / 0) (#62)
    by jbindc on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:33:19 PM EST
    I got a Windows Phone (none / 0) (#65)
    by vicndabx on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:37:48 PM EST
    and use iTunes - go figure.

    Parent
    While Apple haters were bashing (none / 0) (#61)
    by smott on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:31:15 PM EST
    ....Apple batteries were dying and Apple users were being forced on to ATT contracts....

    Parent
    Blackberry (none / 0) (#67)
    by lilburro on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:46:21 PM EST
    currently has greater market share than the iPhone.  (Nielsen).  In terms of affordability, market share, etc. I don't see how Apple is necessarily that great.  Yes their products are easy to use but the PC v. Mac war doesn't interest me.  (Android interests me a bit though).

    Parent
    There is no PC vs Mac war now... (none / 0) (#93)
    by ks on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 06:29:19 PM EST
    If there ever really was one, its long been decided in PCs favor.  PCs are what?  90%? of the computer market. Just brilliant marketing by Apple makes people think there is a PC vs Mac war.

    Parent
    i stick with my Dell Linux, in the proud (none / 0) (#70)
    by the capstan on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 04:03:51 PM EST
    tradition of the Adam, the Amiga, and the homebuilt: down with the expense!  And my cell phone does nothing but talk (I could pay for texting, but no thanks.  I pay for 250 minutes per month and usually use 10 or 15 minutes.)  And the phone is a Coupe, designed for old folks who need help visually.

    Oh, yes, I drive a Scion A; looks a little like a shoe (for the old woman and her dog). But I also have geothermal heat, a/c, and water; when it counts, I spend the money.

    Parent

    I don't (none / 0) (#84)
    by Zorba on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 04:58:34 PM EST
    I own no Apple products whatsoever.

    Parent
    For once, you may be onto something (none / 0) (#101)
    by Yman on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 08:48:27 PM EST
    I dunno (none / 0) (#45)
    by CST on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:06:41 PM EST
    I expect him to try and do what's best for the country regardless of what the polls say.  See - Iraq war.  Public opinion can change.  If the economy was good no one would care how it got that way.

    I know I know... Pols are pols.  That doesn't mean that's a good thing.

    Parent

    We;ve been through this before (none / 0) (#58)
    by jbindc on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:28:57 PM EST
    He started out 9 points higher than Clinton when he came into office. He has fallen farther than any president in recent memory.  How is that a good thing?  Looking at polls based on a week where we had a national tragedy (where a president is always looked at through rose-colored glasses?)

    Seriously - the comparisons to Clinton are ridiculous. You might want to make an analysis of why George Bush was at an average of around 60% at the same time in his presidency -why do you fail to mention him?

    Parent

    Missed some words (none / 0) (#59)
    by jbindc on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:29:37 PM EST
    Looking at polls based on a week where we had a national tragedy (where a president is always looked at through rose-colored glasses?)

    is always a bad idea because they are false numbers.

    Parent

    Pols (none / 0) (#111)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 09:09:05 PM EST
    are just pols but what else are we going to use to determine how people feel he is doing?

    Not just us comment readers but the rest of the world.

    Parent

    My point exactly (none / 0) (#131)
    by jbindc on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 09:23:21 AM EST
    You selectively choose one poll that reflects one week (after a tragedy, mind you, when voters look to have a strong leader and look at the president with a bit more favoritism - see George Bush on September 17, 2001), and you compare it to Bill Clinton, who served a lifetime ago as far as politics is concerned.  Why not compare to Jimmy Carter?  (Hint:  because that doesn't serve your narrative).

    Polls like this are stupid because they don't mean anything right now - it's not right before an election and most people base their opinions on the fact that he gave a good speech in the wake of Tucson.

    If someone is doing such a fabulous job, I expect that person to gain the approval of more than 50.1% of the people.

    Parent

    Two additional polls today (none / 0) (#72)
    by christinep on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 04:10:54 PM EST
    From Washington Post/ABC News and from CNN...both polls show the largest rebound in over a year. The President registers 54 in one poll and 53 as positive in the other. The rise, in part, is attributed to Independents once again shifting after the "lame duck" Congressional session.

    Parent
    That's great for Obama (5.00 / 3) (#78)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 04:19:23 PM EST
    What's it mean for progressive policies?

    The Deal was the extension of the Bush tax cuts.

    Parent

    What does it mean? (none / 0) (#94)
    by christinep on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 07:47:52 PM EST
    I don't know, BTD. Do I dare say that those who consider themselves at the heart of "progressive policies" might want to analyze these twists & turns in the context of what is wanted. That is, we all put forward a negotiating position in significant areas...so, do we have a position or positions on what we propose and what we will settle for? In briefhand (and for the present time) President Obama seems to have regained the upper hand in our political give & take system. I don't know about others; but for me, when faced with that situation, I look at a number of options...including (a) wait a bit (b) double down (c) prioritize my own wants & (d) make a
    "deal" that inches me forward. We all have our approaches.

    Parent
    I wanted the Bush tax cuts repealed (none / 0) (#119)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 09:50:47 PM EST
    There are issues other than the Bush tax cut (none / 0) (#112)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 09:11:34 PM EST
    Staying in power is good for those issues from a progressive perspective.

    Parent
    I think it was the most important issue (5.00 / 1) (#120)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 09:51:50 PM EST
    I foollshly defended Obama's deficit talk thinking it was to set up a stand on the Bush tax cuts.

    I was obviously wrong.

    Parent

    Continuing the Bush Tax Cut (none / 0) (#115)
    by shoephone on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 09:16:08 PM EST
    was a complete travesty. It's horrible politics AND horrible policy. There is no defense for it.

    Parent
    'Apple made technology safe for cool people' (none / 0) (#40)
    by Ellie on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 02:51:07 PM EST
    Whoaaaaahhhh. [/Keanu]

    Jobs was by no means the first person to articulate this vision of a meaningful life--Socrates, the Buddha, and Emerson come to mind.

    And the latter (tacked on and lesser) three only came because they saw that the lights were on.
    They knocked.
    But no one was home.

    To be sure, fully embracing this secular gospel requires an austerity of spirit that few have been able to muster, even if it sounds quite fine on the lawn of Stanford University. [...]

    Jobs's leave of absence was announced on Martin Luther King, Jr., Day, and in the entire twentieth century there was no one who conveyed more hope--genuine, biblical, and faith-breathed--to our culture than Dr. King. Then came Barack Obama, whose election ratified much of what King had dreamed of and fought for--a hope genuinely, if not completely, fulfilled. [...]

    Steve Jobs's gospel is, in the end, a set of beautifully polished empty promises. But I look on my secular neighbors, millions of them, like sheep without a shepherd, who no longer believe in anything they cannot see, and I cannot help feeling compassion for them, and something like fear. When, not if, Steve Jobs departs the stage, will there be anyone left who can convince them to hope?

    I don't know the answer to that, but I strongly reccommend that this dude's belt and shoelaces be confiscated before sending him to replace any spent power-wise lightbulbs. [/sheesh on a leash]

    yeah.....total poppycock (none / 0) (#80)
    by ruffian on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 04:21:32 PM EST
    And he was like Apple... (none / 0) (#48)
    by Dadler on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 03:12:58 PM EST
    ...for those who somehow think a different computer is MORE than just a computer.  Just like thinking because you think you're liberal and voting for the black guy that this will be MORE than just an election.

    Tooting one's horn, in other words. Pardon the odor.

    Obama and the Puck (none / 0) (#74)
    by Madeline on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 04:14:12 PM EST
     Steve Jobs: "There's an old Wayne Gretzky quote that I love."

     'I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been.' And we've always tried to do that at Apple. Since the very very beginning. And we always will.'
    --Steve Jobs

    Does that sound like Obama?

    Yes (none / 0) (#113)
    by AngryBlackGuy on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 09:14:21 PM EST
    It actually does.

    Parent
    Agree. And, he does it as often as Gretzky did (none / 0) (#125)
    by christinep on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 10:33:57 PM EST
    Considering that the President (none / 0) (#126)
    by andgarden on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 10:36:40 PM EST
    has been all over the place on marriage equality, I would have to strongly disagree with that assessment. In fact, the only place where it applies is his own election.

    Parent
    Not sure (none / 0) (#129)
    by ruffian on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 08:02:48 AM EST
    But in any event, I want him to be the one shooting the puck, not trying to chase it.

    Parent
    Except Jobs did skate to the future. (none / 0) (#137)
    by rennies on Wed Jan 19, 2011 at 09:50:59 AM EST
    Obama has gone backwards, and when he attacks Social Security he will slide even further back.

    Parent
    Hmm, takes me back (none / 0) (#81)
    by Towanda on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 04:29:58 PM EST
    the famous ad that introduced the PC, the Mac.

    Remember the lemming-like humanoids?

    Apple, no, Obama is all orange (none / 0) (#82)
    by Dadler on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 04:45:03 PM EST


    An old video but still mostly applicable (none / 0) (#127)
    by Babel 17 on Tue Jan 18, 2011 at 11:29:57 PM EST
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xiAgrrwL_mk

    Lol, Apple is great, my brother and sister in law rely on their Apple computer and it serves them well.