TPM Opposing Pelosi For Dem Leader?

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Media
Posted on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:02:17 PM EST
Tags: (all tags)

Share This: Digg!

So many questions:

So Many Questions

TPM Reader EA:

I don't get why Democrats would want to maintain the same leadership personalities in the House. Don't people all around the country really really hate Nancy Pelosi and probably James Clyburn too? Don't we have any 'young guns' to showcase over the next couple of years? Doesn't an even more 'liberal' minority leadership structure only increase the likelihood we'll see the dreaded triangulation from the President? [. . .] What's the strategy here? Is it more about convention and entitlement than strategy?

(Emphasis supplied.) Interesting. Though there clearly is one easy answer on the "triangulation" question - if the President is going to triangulate, better that he triangulate against a more progressive position in the House Dem caucus, than against a "moderate" position in the House Dem caucus. But I do find the anti-Pelosi TPM position quite fascinating. I wonder what that's about.

Update: TPM posts a counterpoint. Maybe they don't oppose Pelosi after all. Or maybe they don't want to appear to be opposing her. In any event, strange stuff.

Speaking for me only

< Olbermann Suspended For Dem Donations | Friday Afternoon Open Thread >

Legal

Nothing on this site should be construed as legal advice. TalkLeft does not give legal advice.

TalkLeft is not responsible for and often disagrees with material posted in the comments section. Read at your own risk.

TPM Opposing Pelosi For Dem Leader? | 46 comments (46 topical)

Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment

Great point in response (5.00 / 0) (#1)
by ruffian on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:06:02 PM EST

How well has it worked out for Democrats to have conservative Dems from vulnerable districts serving as Senate leader? How did it work out for Tom Daschle? How about Harry Reid? Being the leader of the Democrats in Congress puts a political target on one's back, and "conservative" Democrats in vulnerable districts are the first and easiest targets. Replace Pelosi with a conservadem like Heath Schuler, and the Republicans will focus all their attention on a (probably successful) attempt to unseat him. Further, in the process of trying to retain his seat, he will drag the Democratic caucus further to the right, which....

Where's that from? (none / 0) (#7)
by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:10:56 PM EST

Never mind. Found it. (none / 0) (#10)
by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:15:17 PM EST

The first post was made by David Kurtz (none / 0) (#24)
by magster on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:58:18 PM EST

and the response by Josh Marshall.

That may be a possible reason for the contradictory points.. maybe Kurtz is a BlueDog.


: Not quite (none / 0) (#31)
by MO Blue on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 07:28:25 PM EST

The first post was from TPM Reader EA. The second was from TPM reader CS. David Kurtz put both readers comments up for discussion.

I actually (5.00 / 1) (#2)
by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:07:09 PM EST

don't think Pelosi should be replaced because "people around the country" hate her because some of these people will hate anybody with a D by their name. I do agree, however, that it is time for new leadership. Someone who was not around in the 80's and not one of Rahm's "bush democrats" who were so cowed by the GOP for the last 10 years. Someone who can articulate and relate to the working class voters out there. I don't know who this is though and Clyburn really isn't a good choice either.

If I could think of a better choice I'd put it out (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by ruffian on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:20:31 PM EST

there too, but I can't. And she has already been so demonized - why give them a new target?

She says she wants to fight for social security and medicare, and I believe she will oppose most spending cuts. I think she is the most liberal leader they are likely to select.


Do you (5.00 / 1) (#28)
by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 04:17:20 PM EST

think she will break with Obama? I think her problem has been that she has been giving Obama everything he wanted instead of standing up for issues.


: Actually, Pelosi gets a lot of cover (none / 0) (#37)
by christinep on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 09:23:39 PM EST

from the WH. I support her, because she is the most capable, strongest, most experienced, etc....she can and will have the media attention necessary to counter Boehner...she more than knows the ropes; she knows how to get the job done (a particular reason she is so vilified by the Repubs.) Also: Consider that the first two years of this Administration have seen a resurgence of power in the Legislative Branch of government. The WH essentially acknowledged that necessity in view of the many crises confronting them as soon as they set foot in the place.

I agree, Speaker Pelosi (none / 0) (#26)
by KeysDan on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 04:06:56 PM EST

has had a difficult task of organizing and leading the politically diverse Democratic egos. During 2008 and 2010 she often seemed torn between supporting President Obama's attempts at bipartisanship and following her own, just get- it- done instincts.

During 2006 and 2008 she seemed to be paving the way for the 2008 elections by not rocking the boat and letting George Bush continue to help with the paving job. However, her first major comment that "impeachment was off the table", was not only an over-reaction to a possible boomerang as happened with the Republican's impeachment of President Clinton, but also, an example of poor congressional negotiating and leveraging skills for Rahm to take along with him to the White House. (The sigh of relief expressed by Bush and Cheney must have been heard all the way to the Hague).

Speaker Pelosi knows the cast of characters and may be especially well suited for the role of minority leader, and, the clincher, of course, is her Blue Dog opposition, such as Dan Boren (D. OK).


That (none / 0) (#3)
by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:07:35 PM EST

should be NOT because people around the country hate her.


CHANGE?? (none / 0) (#45)
by norris morris on Sun Nov 07, 2010 at 05:19:42 PM EST

Does anyone still believe that unless Obama shows some spine and the ability to clearly communicate that it matters if Pelosi stays? Clearly the problem is with Obama who hasn't shown any leadership and is entirely lost in the bubble of yes men and women who refuse [or cannot] direct his attention and actions to the real ASAP problems.

The preening from Obama has been encouraged by his Bots. Blame Bush is a loser. Obama was elected to change the status quo, and his inability to control the message and communicate mit feelin' are just some of the reasons he missed his moment and disappointed his followers.

Is he really so naive and in the bubble that he didn't know jobs were key? That many in his council have fudged on taxes we have to pay? That he hasn't a clue as how to close the deal?

If he has done anything good we don't know about it and we know next to nothing about HCR.

The naive hunt for friendly GOP'ers resulted in Obama being rolled over. And his advisors didn't see this coming?

Going to India for jobs?This was his reason for this ill timed trip? He left the ranch. He's visiting all those guys who pick up the phone when we call our banks or credit card companies.

Is Obama going to take the jobs that Indians have and give them back to workers in our country who are unemployed?

Obama is clueless. He has no feel for governing, and so far little courage, poor communication skills, and worst of all.....no will. He's not suited for this job.


Last night I asked (5.00 / 1) (#5)
by andgarden on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:09:09 PM EST

whether she should try to say. I said that she probably shouldn't, but that I couldn't think of anyone else to fill the role better. Apparently she agrees with me, so she's staying.

I now support her strongly.

Pretty much my attitude too (5.00 / 0) (#12)
by ruffian on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:17:44 PM EST

I like that she is willing to fight.


: As Prince Feisel said in Lawrence of Arabia (5.00 / 1) (#14)
by andgarden on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:19:38 PM EST

"Stand and fight!"

: Now that she's shown that fight, (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by Inspector Gadget on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:20:36 PM EST

I hope she points it toward doing what the democratic voters need her to do rather than rigid focus on what POTUS tells her he wants.

I know what I don't want: (5.00 / 2) (#23)
by Anne on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:54:32 PM EST

a leader who decided to run as a Democrat because he couldn't win as a Republican - Heath Schuler.

And with all signs pointing to Obama's growing love affair with those good Republican ideas, I don't want a leader who's going to help make that happen, but one who is more likely to push back with more Democratic ideas.

Honest to God, I am just so tired of these Dems whose reaction to being punched is to apologize for the provocation and promise to try harder to be more compliant; if you know your policy is the right policy, that it's better for the majority of people, fighting for it is the right thing to do. Giving up tells people maybe you really don't care as much as you said you did, and no one respects that, no one.

Some people are just incapable of learning from their mistakes, I guess, and unfortunately, some of those people are going to be setting the course for the next couple of years. And if anyone thinks that someone like Heath Shuler is going to help move us in a better direction, or slow the GOP from their agenda, I'd have to seriously question where, exactly, it is they think we need to be going.

: You know what? (2.00 / 0) (#27)
by Ga6thDem on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 04:15:32 PM EST

I am familiar with Shuler's district having grown up not far away from there and even though it's changed a good bit over the years, the people in his district are very much dependent on things like Social Security and if he voted to cut SS he would be hung, drawn and quartered by his constituents. That's not to say that he would be a good minority leader but he may not be as bad as people might think.

Is it unusual for blog (none / 0) (#4)
by oculus on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:08:52 PM EST

to front page a comment w/nothing more?

: TPM and most blogs (none / 0) (#6)
by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:10:09 PM EST

often use a comment to express their own views.
If they disagree, they usually explain it when the feature it.

BTW, are you implying (none / 0) (#8)
by andgarden on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:11:40 PM EST

that TPM is opposing Pelosi for gender-based reasons?

Not implying anything (none / 0) (#9)
by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:14:59 PM EST

Just find it all very strange.


: Well, FWIW, I think Pelosi (5.00 / 1) (#13)
by andgarden on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:17:44 PM EST

is "tested and ready" for this job ;-)

Note that Kurtz is the guy (none / 0) (#11)
by Big Tent Democrat on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:15:48 PM EST

who attacked blogs who opposed Lieberman in 2006.


: definitely (none / 0) (#18)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:30:50 PM EST

worth noting. you beat me

I do (none / 0) (#25)
by Madeline on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:58:49 PM EST

Would not be surprised ... <n/t> (none / 0) (#30)
by FreakyBeaky on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 07:09:42 PM EST

More likely ageism (none / 0) (#17)
by oculus on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:30:32 PM EST

than sexism. Else why include Clyburn?

: That's what I thought (5.00 / 1) (#21)
by lilburro on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:46:42 PM EST

Pelosi's popularity is not great, but that will probably change now that she's in the minority. Who else would be recognizable and have the chops for the job? She is competent at it after all and that somehow remains part of the criteria.

No! Not the dreaded triangulation strategy!! (none / 0) (#19)
by lilburro on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:42:32 PM EST

: NO ONE (none / 0) (#20)
by Capt Howdy on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:43:35 PM EST

EXPECTS TRIANGULATION

People still read TPM? (none / 0) (#22)
by shoephone on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 03:49:45 PM EST

Well.... (none / 0) (#32)
by jimakaPPJ on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 07:28:46 PM EST

losing has consequences.

The Left should keep Nancy around if for no other reason than to help the Right in 2010.

Don't bet on it (5.00 / 1) (#33)
by Politalkix on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 07:58:39 PM EST

After Boehner gets caught between Nancy Pelosi's steel and the looney Palin/Bachman truculence, I would not rule out the possibility of the Republican base questioning his manhood.


Boehner wanted a Republican (none / 0) (#38)
by Harry Saxon on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 11:22:13 PM EST

majority in the worse way possible.

That may be what he ends up with.


Whatever (none / 0) (#41)
by jimakaPPJ on Sat Nov 06, 2010 at 09:51:15 PM EST

If you think the Tea Partiers will (none / 0) (#42)
by Harry Saxon on Sun Nov 07, 2010 at 07:28:28 AM EST

go along with Boehner on his agenda quietly, that's somewhat unrealistic and Pollyanish, not that there's anything wrong with that...............


If he had a choice I think he would (none / 0) (#43)
by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 07, 2010 at 02:53:38 PM EST

take the Tea Partiers...

Not that there is anything wrong with that.

lol


If he doesn't have a choice (none / 0) (#44)
by Harry Saxon on Sun Nov 07, 2010 at 03:07:00 PM EST

then his troubles are just beginning :-D


At present (none / 0) (#46)
by jimakaPPJ on Sun Nov 07, 2010 at 07:06:47 PM EST

the polls show that the vote was against Demos more than for Repubs.

The Tea Party offers an opportunity for the Repubs. Can they seize it? Well, the Democrats couldn't hold the youngster vote....


: If the Left is smart (none / 0) (#47)
by Harry Saxon on Mon Nov 08, 2010 at 05:03:21 AM EST

they'll let Boehner have enough rope to hang himself and he'll end up leading his fellow Republicans to defeat in 2012.
You heard it here first, folks.
Well, the Democrats couldn't hold the youngster vote....
Yes, the Tea Party certainly demonstrated their appeal to 'the youngest vote' as can be seen by the number of young minority and otherwise folks at the Tea Party demonstration............

All the "serious" people (none / 0) (#34)
by caseyOR on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 08:17:03 PM EST

are shocked that Pelosi apparently cannot take a hint, has the nerve to not run away, and seems quite happy flipping the appropriate finger to everyone who has demonized her. I just heard Stuart Rothenberg compare this to Willie Mays playing those last couple years for the Mets instead of retiring when everyone else thought he should. Oh, by the way, Stuart is a real tool.

And, for the history challenged, Sam Rayburn refused to go quietly after losing big; remained as minority leader and then Speaker again; is now considered one of, if not the, greatest Speakers ever. And, he has a building named for him in D.C.

I say,"Go, Nancy. Give 'em h#ll!" If all the "right"' people are against you, how wrong can you be?

I saw the Rothenberg slam, too, (none / 0) (#35)
by Anne on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 08:21:31 PM EST

and maybe it was just me, but I thought his comments sounded like, "WWTSBQ?"

He's a tool, all right, but not as sharp a one as he thinks...


Yes, he was clearly saying WWTSBQ! (none / 0) (#36)
by caseyOR on Fri Nov 05, 2010 at 08:28:20 PM EST

It's not just you, Anne. That is what I heard him saying, too. Maybe the sports reference was code? I don't know.


: Well, if it's code, he needs a new one, (5.00 / 1) (#40)
by Anne on Sat Nov 06, 2010 at 08:47:32 AM EST

because his message came through loud and clear, and instead of it being one of "see what a deep and insightful political thinker I am," it was "hi, I'm just another man who resents strong women."
I'd be willing to bet lunch that he wasn't using sports analogies about Willie Mays when Connecticut voters rejected Joe Lieberman in 2006.

Seems the serious people (none / 0) (#39)
by MO Blue on Sat Nov 06, 2010 at 08:27:29 AM EST

are reviving their WWTSBQ mem.
