home

Obama Administration Doing A "Heckuva Job" On Foreclosure Crisis

Jeralyn pointed out that President Obama praised Larry Summers for "doing a heckuva job." More such praise is due to his team working on the foreclosure crisis:

Revelations about paperwork shortcuts and so-called robo-signed affidavits, as well as the likelihood of protracted legal battles by homeowners and inquiries by state and federal officials, will hinder foreclosure proceedings and discourage prospective buyers, a Treasury Department official said. “Together, these two factors may exert downward pressure on overall housing prices both in the short and long run,” said the official, Phyllis R. Caldwell, chief of the homeownership preservation office at the Treasury.

[More...]

The administration’s testimony did little to soothe members of the Congressional Oversight Panel overseeing the Troubled Asset Relief Program, the 2008 bailout, who said the bungled foreclosures could set back the nation’s fragile economic recovery. “If investors lose confidence in the ability of banks to document their ownership of mortgages, the financial industry could suffer staggering losses,” the panel’s chairman, Senator Edward E. Kaufman, Democrat of Delaware, told Ms. Caldwell. “The possibility is especially alarming, coming so soon after taxpayers spent billions of dollars to bail out these very same institutions.” Another panel member, Richard H. Neiman, the New York State banking superintendent, asked, “How do we continue to look homeowners in the eye and ask them to continue to work with their servicers given the latest news pertaining to faulty documents and fraudulent affidavits?

Indeed, the Treasury official's testimony is utterly nonsensical. As I discussed before, the Obama Administration is making no sense regarding foreclosures:

Dean Baker fisks this WaPo "news" article:

The Washington Post appears to have outdone itself in a discussion of the politics surrounding the foreclosure crisis. For beginners, it told readers that:

[. . . T]he White House, which is looking past the midterm elections, has been restrained. Housing and Urban Development Secretary Shaun Donovan wrote over the weekend that 'a national, blanket moratorium on all foreclosure sales would do far more harm than good, hurting homeowners and home buyers alike.'"

Okay, it's fun with logic time. Secretary Donovan wants more foreclosures, presumably to further depress prices. [. . .] If Donovan thinks it is good to speed up the foreclosure process then why is the administration pushing HAMP? [. . .] That may make sense to the Washington Post, but probably not to anyone else. [. . .] The article then gives us a quote from a Democratic consultant without a name: "But shutting down foreclosures has the potential of shutting down the whole housing market, which isn't helpful to anybody."

Let's see, we have how many hundreds of thousands of homes that non-foreclosed sellers are putting on the market each month, plus a backlog of several hundred thousand foreclosed homes already in the banks' possession. How exactly does a moratorium on foreclosures shut down the whole housing market?

Of course it doesn't. But the cloud on titles to homes does. The Obama Administration wants to sweep reality under the rug.

And the incompetence starts at the top. Here is what President Obama said yesterday:

Q. I was wondering if you’re happy with the federal response to the foreclosure crisis or if you think there’s more that either should have been or could be in the future done either through HAMP or Fannie and Freddie or various mechanisms?

THE PRESIDENT: I don’t think I’m happy with millions of foreclosures or millions of houses being underwater. This is -- this was both a powerful symptom as well as a cause of the economic crisis that we’re in. So we’ve got to do as much as we can to stabilize the housing market.

I do think that the steps that we’ve taken helped stabilize the housing market. The HAMP program has gotten a lot of criticism, but the fact of the matter is, is that you’ve got half a million people who have gone through permanent loan modifications that are saving 500 bucks a month. And I get letters every day from people whose homes were saved as a consequence of it.

I think that the broader steps we took to stabilize the economy mean that housing prices are not plummeting the way they were. But this is a multitrillion-dollar market and a multitrillion-dollar problem. And the challenge that we’ve had is we’ve got only so much gravel and we’ve got a really big pothole. We can’t magically sort of fix a decline in home values that’s so severe in some markets that people are $100,000 to $150,000 underwater.

What we can do is to try to create sort of essentially bridge programs that help people stabilize, refinance where they can, and in some cases not just get pummeled if they decide that they want to move.

I think that we have tinkered with the HAMP program as we get more information to figure out can we do this better, can we do this smarter with the resources that we have.

The biggest challenge is how do you make sure that you are helping those who really deserve help and if they get some temporary help can get back on their feet, make their payments and move forward and stay in their home, versus either people who are speculators, own second homes that they really couldn’t afford because they’d gotten a subprime loan, and people who through no fault of their own just can’t afford their house anymore because of the change in housing values or their incomes don’t support it.And we’re always trying to find that sweet spot to use as much of the money that we have available to us to help those who can be helped, without wasting that money on folks who don’t deserve help. And that’s a tough balance to strike.

Complete horsesh*t. That said, the President is right when he says:

[I]nitially a lot of the problems on the foreclosure front had to do with balloon payments people didn’t see coming, adjustable rate mortgages that people didn’t clearly understand, predatory lending scams that were taking place -- now the biggest driver of foreclosure is unemployment. And so the single most important thing I can do for the housing market is actually improve economic growth as a whole. If we can get the economy moving stronger, if we can drive the unemployment rate down, that will have probably the biggest impact on foreclosures, as well as housing prices, as just about anything.

The problem is the President does not have any actual policies in place to help create jobs. His stimulus was badly inadequate and now with the GOP likely to take the Congress, he surely is not going to get anything new to address the problem.

In the first 100 days President Obama and his team failed on the economy by not doing enough. And there will likely not be a second chance for him. All of the talk about demanding too much in the first 2 years utterly misunderstands the Presidency - a President's power is at its height in the first 6 months of his Presidency. If Obama was impotent then, he is utterly powerless now. The chance of a great Presidency is dead. A Lost Decade seems a certainty.

Heckuva a job.

Speaking for me only

< Politics Is Stupid, Cont'd | Blogging Broders >
  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


  • Display: Sort:
    you could feel the nation cringe (5.00 / 2) (#3)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 08:45:09 AM EST
    at the utterance of those words last night.

    Me (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 08:49:07 AM EST
    too. Absolutely cringe worthy.

    Parent
    and the (none / 0) (#18)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:04:36 AM EST
    "pun intended" follow up was really almost as cringe worthy.

    first, no one believes that and second even if it was it was monumentally stupid and not really funny.


    Parent

    How any president (none / 0) (#40)
    by TJBuff on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:49:07 AM EST
    Dem or Repub, could let those words pass his lips escapes me.  Why not just print a big "L" on your forehead?

    Parent
    There (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 08:50:41 AM EST
    never was the chance of a great presidency with Obama. Yes, the circumstances were such that there could have been a great presidency but not with Obama. He has no ideological core,

    Well, he marketed himself as the Second Coming (5.00 / 1) (#24)
    by Angel on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:08:40 AM EST
    ...halo included.  Nowhere to go but down when you start that high.

    Parent
    Hey Kaufman... (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by kdog on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 08:55:23 AM EST
    "If investors lose confidence in the ability of banks to document their ownership of mortgages, the financial industry could suffer staggering losses"

    I can't speak for mortgage gamblers, but if they haven't lost all confidence already they are seriously delusional. Also, why shouldn't the financial industry suffer staggering losses? The financial industry tried to shoot the moon on longshots...thats supposed to lead to staggering losses, unless you get very lucky and beat the odds.  

    Off with their shirts!

    He's totally into PR over policy (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by TJBuff on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 08:56:20 AM EST
    or has an exaggerated opinion of his campaign skills. Nothing ever gets done the second two years of an administration.  What he's got now is what he's going to have to run on, and if it isn't working for the Congressional Dems it's not going to work for him.

    Doesn't sound (5.00 / 0) (#22)
    by lilburro on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:08:02 AM EST
    very HOLC-ish to me...we have to make sure the bankers get to have their piece:

    The biggest challenge is how do you make sure that you are helping those who really deserve help and if they get some temporary help can get back on their feet, make their payments and move forward and stay in their home, versus either people who are speculators, own second homes that they really couldn't afford because they'd gotten a subprime loan, and people who through no fault of their own just can't afford their house anymore because of the change in housing values or their incomes don't support it.And we're always trying to find that sweet spot to use as much of the money that we have available to us to help those who can be helped, without wasting that money on folks who don't deserve help. And that's a tough balance to strike.  [emphasis supplied]

    I just don't understand why he would make this distinction.  We are in an economic crisis and we acknowledge that "people through no fault of their own" can't afford their homes anymore and we're just going to let them fall by the wayside?  I realize not everyone can get bailed out, but, jeez.

    Yup. Sort out the 'undeserving' later if you must (5.00 / 2) (#34)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:38:06 AM EST
    they sure did not waste time assigning blame when they were bailing out the banks.

    Parent
    Or at least put (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by lilburro on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:53:30 AM EST
    a non-bank related interest firmly in charge of the process.

    At this point they're self-defeating:

    And the challenge that we've had is we've got only so much gravel and we've got a really big pothole.

    "We can't do anything, we can't do this, we can't do that..." and what a surprise, not much gets done.  

    Parent

    Leadership is (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 03:21:46 PM EST
    hardly defined with all the reasons why NOT.

    But, I always thought he was the Republican choice and the guarantee that one term with his Democratic administration would prevent them from having to worry about a successful challenge from the left for decades to follow.


    Parent

    Absolutely (none / 0) (#50)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 10:28:55 AM EST
    That pot hole will never get filled if every shovel full has to first have bank approval.

    Parent
    Guess this pothole wasn't (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by BTAL on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 10:34:33 AM EST
    shovel ready.   YMMV

    Parent
    The banks got away with murder (5.00 / 5) (#25)
    by Saul on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:09:07 AM EST
    First we bail them out because of their mismanagement which caused so much of the financial crisis.  

    Now we let them get away with the blatant illegal foreclosure debacle.  

    Where is the accountability?  Where is the outrage?

    If Obama wanted to score some big points with the middle class he would fight the banks in this foreclosure mess and force that all foreclosures stop. I would prosecute the banks that did the robo signing.  Give back the homes to the owners with a new negotiated contract that they could afford.  Renegotiate all upside down mortgages by bringing the principal equal to the value and lowering the interest rates on these.

    He doesn't seem to get that the urgency (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:34:03 AM EST
    of the situation requires massive speedy intervention with blanket help for all. Sort out the undeserving later if you must.

    The economy simply will not recover with a third of homeowners either in foreclosure or considering it. Obama does not seem to get it.

    Parent

    And the one third going down (5.00 / 2) (#48)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 10:14:09 AM EST
    will eventually flush the rest of us by the time we round two more years, the one third being foreclosed on and properties just sitting there will put all of us underwater in our mortgages......if you were still trying to hang in the game even after understanding that you are paying for something of which probably no clear title exists.

    Parent
    I hardly know where to start, so (5.00 / 8) (#47)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 10:05:30 AM EST
    pardon me if this is somewhat incoherent and jumps around a bit.

    First of all, the "paperwork shortcuts" and the "robo-signed affidavits" are not "the" problem, but merely a symptom of a much bigger and multi-level problem - that of whether or if the foreclosing entities actually have the right to foreclose absent the required conveyance of the obligation, whether these mortgages were assigned more than once to different entities, and all the attendant problems with the massive securitization of these obligations.

    Second, while there is again talk of whether homeowners "deserve" any help, there is little from the powers-that-be of the reason so many who couldn't afford to borrow were given mortgages: the originating lenders weren't going to hold onto the garbage loans, were selling them immediately, making a boatload on fees and other charges, and were throwing underwriting guidelines out the window and were encouraging borrowers to lie to get the loans.

    Third, I find Obama's concern for whether borrowers deserve help darkly amusing given that he still has no apparent concern about whether the banks that drove us off this cliff deserved the help they got; this signals to me that there will be an ongoing effort to save the banks so they will live to find new ways to screw people over.

    Fourth, Obama is clearly just regurgitating the PR spin he's been fed on HAMP, because that program - while it may have helped a few - has been a disaster for most, even while it has been a boon to banks and servicers.  Anyone who does a modicum of research knows that the way the program is structured, there is simply no incentive to the banks/servicers for these modifications to take place within the program, which is why many have been referred to "private" modification programs.  People have been suckered in so many ways, while the banks and servicers have gobbled up fees at every step.  And I'd bet a dollar that for every letter he gets thanking him for the program, there are thousands of letters he never sees that are as far from being appreciative as it is possible to be without the Secret Service having to get involved.

    Finally, who wants to bet that when Obama acknowledges that he has to get the economy going, his idea of helping is limited to more useless tax cuts for businesses?

    Finally (Part II), someone pass me the Advil and Maalox.


    It's a good thing (5.00 / 3) (#49)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 10:23:05 AM EST
    Obama never needed help buying a house, say, in, oh, I don't know, Hyde Park?

    Parent
    You must have missed Obama's (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 06:01:49 PM EST
    well-reasoned defense that if he had allowed one big bank to fail, 100 other banks would follow. He must have missed all the small bank failures that happened anyway.

    Spin, spin, spin. They do it so fast that it takes a second to shake myself awake again and see the lie behind the excuse.

    Of course, this election season is OverTheTop with lying....FactCheck.org must be having a dickens of a time keeping up with all the sh!t slinging.


    Parent

    Atrios use to have a regular feature (none / 0) (#77)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 07:05:39 PM EST
    listing the banks that as he put just got "ate."

    Parent
    So what's the solution? (5.00 / 2) (#53)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 10:46:06 AM EST
    I don't mean what should have been done, but what practical thing/s would be best for the federal government to do now to fix the foreclosure balls-up?

    I have trouble wrapping my mind around some of this stuff, but I honestly don't get what a national foreclosure moratorium would solve.  A moratorium until what happens?  Until banks get some, all, most, what percentage, of their documentation properly established?  Who decides when it's lifted, and would that happen piecemeal, bank by bank, or what?

    It's state courts that are in control of foreclosure approvals, and some places like Florida have set up special "rocket docket" foreclosure courts to try to clear the backlog, and it's those courts that have been approving foreclosures without proper documentation and riding roughshod over home owners who have legitimate paperwork to prove they should not be foreclosed on.

    What authority do the feds have to make them do it right?

    And another question.  Since we all know that there's a glut of foreclosed homes going unsold on the market right now, what actual business motivation do you suppose the banks have for wanting to rush these foreclosures through?

    ditto (5.00 / 0) (#54)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 10:54:45 AM EST
    I know enough to know when I dont know enough to have an opinion.  

    this is one of those times.


    Parent

    To answer your last question (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by BTAL on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 11:16:18 AM EST
    Banks keep the asset on their books (at the initial value) until sold.  They are holding onto foreclosed properties because those houses are valued at the original appraised value or at worse the mortgaged/foreclosed value.

    Only at time of sale do they have to reconcile the on the books value with reality.  Hence, they are sitting on that huge shadow inventory for accounting purposes.

    Parent

    And many (5.00 / 0) (#65)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 11:43:40 AM EST
    times they have a preconceived value on these homes that they won't let them sell for below. My brother just went through this. They wouldn't take his low offer even though the home had sat vacant for a year and a half.

    Parent
    That explains why they (none / 0) (#79)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 11:40:07 PM EST
    aren't knocking themselves out to actually sell these properties, but it argues against, seems to me, vastly increasing their inventory of unsold foreclosed properties, doesn't it?

    Parent
    I want anend to (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 11:25:09 AM EST
    the moratorium on due process.

    Parent
    Here's a post that might help (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by Anne on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 11:49:51 AM EST
    with some of your questions, from David Dayen at FDL:

    Let me co-sign in the strongest possible terms to Felix Salmon's little video about how to fix the mortgage mess. In two minutes he outlines a solution to the problem that would actually solve more than he thinks. Since you can't embed it, I'll transcribe some of his elegant solution, which many consumer advocates and state Attorneys General (and me) have echoed in recent weeks.

    It involves a lot of work, it involves a lot of money, it won't be easy and the banks are going to hate it... What you do is something you call principal reduction, where you take the old mortgage, the big mortgage, which is now as we know legally suspect... you take that slightly dodgy old mortgage, which in any case is very unlikely, statistically speaking, to ever get fully repaid, and you reconfigure it, you swap out for a new mortgage with a lower principal amount which is actually less than the total amount of the house so the homeowner has a strong incentive to continue paying that mortgage. And in doing so, because this is a brand new fresh mortgage, you know that this is legally watertight, and it's going to be able to stand up to legal scrutiny.

    This whole foreclosure fraud thing is a legal matter. In many cases, the banks and the servicers just don't have the legal standing to foreclose. That's not just because of the paperwork and the robo-signers, but because of improper mortgage assignments in the securitization process. The banks outsmarted themselves. They made it impossible to determine ownership in a vast number of cases.

    It is similarly legal to refinance and reconfigure the mortgages - that has plenty of precedent in contract law. So this is a legal way to fix a problem of illegality. In this case, homeowners get the benefit of that process. I'm sure you'll say "banks will never do this to themselves." Not if they see an alternative of plowing through the system, yes. But if they see no recourse, if they envision a nightmare of taking bad sour mortgages and being unable to foreclose on borrowers in deficiency, it then becomes in their financial interest to engage in a mass workout. Judges are already shutting down alternative options for the banks, and the escape routes are getting closed off.

    There's more, and you might want to check out this post, as well.


    Parent

    Kinda confused here (none / 0) (#78)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 08:16:23 PM EST
    how can a bank, which does not have clear title to a mortage, agree to modify the mortgage, whether by reducing the principal or anything else?  How do I know if I get a mortgage modification from Bank A, that Bank Y won't come along and tell me it is the true owner of the original mortgage and Bank A didn't have legal right to modify? What am I missing?

    Parent
    That's my major question, too (none / 0) (#80)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 11:44:34 PM EST
    Also, it's not clear to me how many of the folks in foreclosure are capable of paying even a substantially reduced mortgage.  If you're unemployed, living on food stamps and UI which is about to run out, getting a break on a big mortgage isn't going to help.

    We're not talking about underwater walk-aways here anymore.  Most of this is because of unemployment now, is my understanding (which could be wrong).

    Parent

    Many folks in or facing (none / 0) (#84)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 08:51:34 PM EST
    pending foreclosure are not unemployed, but victims of predatory lending practices whereby they qualified for lower rate mortgages and instead were given higher rate mortgages with steep reset provisions; it's the resets in a time when mortgage $ is not available to them at cheaper rates that's pushing them into foreclosure, I believe. The unemployment, etc. is an added factor.  And, imo, it still makes more sense from every perspective to lower monthly payments by 1/2 if that would (i) keep cash flow going to the banks (a win for the banks), (ii) prevent foreclosures and thereby a sharp decline in neighborhood home values, and (iii) as a result, prevent all homeowners in neighborhoods from suffering sharp declines in home values; and the banks benefit here, too, because a far greater portion of the value of their collateral is preserved. And, we all benefit when there are fewer homeless. Lowering monthly payments is what I understand was done in the 1930s.  

    Parent
    30 states allow non-judicial foreclosure (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by Joan in VA on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 12:17:39 PM EST
    where the lender can merely post a Trustee Sale notice in the local paper and then hold the sale. The hammer comes down and your home is gone. If you aren't aware of the sale or don't have the funds for a legal fight to stop it, you are out of luck. The lender doesn't have to demonstrate that they are acting lawfully-you have to prove that they aren't. The reason for doing something nationally would be to put the burden on the lender, where it belongs, for everyone in every state. Of course, if some courts are part of the problem, it would only buy some time for some people and may not really help them.

    Parent
    But a moratorium (none / 0) (#81)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 11:46:36 PM EST
    doesn't change that non-judicial process, it just delays it.  There would also have to be some ukase from the feds requiring judicial review, which I don't know know that the federal government has the power to impose-- certainly not without legislation, at best, and that ain't gonna happen.

    Parent
    I'm sure my thoughts are way too simple (none / 0) (#76)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 06:08:54 PM EST
    but, to start, they really need to at least try to untangle some of the bundled mess.

    They should force every mortgage lender to send a letter to every single address they have the paper on....unbundle and start writing to the borrowers to make sure the payments are going to the right place and everyone in a home they believe they are buying knows exactly where their payments are suppose to be going. Any borrower who doesn't get a letter should be able to file for clear deed.

    Parent

    I'm with you in principle (none / 0) (#82)
    by gyrfalcon on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 11:55:35 PM EST
    but your suggestion doesn't sound practical to me.  For one thing, a big part of the problem is that the original lenders no longer own the mortgage, and apparently in an awful lot of cases, literally nobody can figure out who does because they've been chopped up and repackaged and sold all over the place in bits and pieces, if I understand correctly what's been done over the last however many years.

    What actually owns the mortgages is a weirdo financial product made up of slices of mortgages, and which is owned by various (mostly but not entirely) institutional investors, including small now bankrupt towns in places like Sweden.

    This, if I understand right, was one of the big problems of the original TARP concept, to buy up these "toxic assets" in order to establish a reasonable market value for them.  There was literally no way to establish a market value without somehow unrolling and deciphering the market value of all the individual properties, since the market value of the financial instruments themselves was zero.

    Writing letters would take approximately 100 years to clear things up, too.

    Parent

    Those lenders need to stake their claim (none / 0) (#83)
    by Inspector Gadget on Fri Oct 29, 2010 at 09:28:20 PM EST
    or the homeowner gets it free and clear. The lenders have gotten enough out of the mess they made. If they were careless enough to buy blind, tough for them! The only way to shake out the crap is to force the debt holders to prove they have the paper.


    Parent
    The "mess", imo, can be untangled (none / 0) (#85)
    by BackFromOhio on Thu Nov 04, 2010 at 08:53:32 PM EST
    but it's cheaper to foreclose without homework, and in many cases, up to now, the banks have been given a free pass - and they've taken advantage.  

    Parent
    Here's a possibility I see (none / 0) (#1)
    by andgarden on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 08:37:49 AM EST
    for renewal: when he vetoes the Republican Congress's renewal of the Bush tax cuts.

    Fantasy (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 08:42:16 AM EST
    He's not going to do that.

    Parent
    He would be insane not to (none / 0) (#4)
    by andgarden on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 08:46:58 AM EST
    But then. . .

    Parent
    Biden already (none / 0) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 08:50:30 AM EST
    giveaway the deal - "permanent middle class tax cuts in exchange for "temporary" tax cuts for the rich.

    Parent
    I missed that (none / 0) (#9)
    by andgarden on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 08:51:36 AM EST
    That's not a "deal" at all. It's hilarious.

    Parent
    You need a link? (none / 0) (#10)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 08:52:06 AM EST
    Sure, I'd be interested to see that (none / 0) (#11)
    by andgarden on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 08:53:46 AM EST
    Frankly, it doesn't sound much like what the President was saying yesterday. But he's in campaign mode now. He doesn't have to give away everything until January.

    Parent
    Link (none / 0) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 08:54:02 AM EST
    Doesn't seem nearly as bad (none / 0) (#16)
    by andgarden on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:00:37 AM EST
    as you characterize it:

    Aides downplayed Biden's comments Saturday, saying the vice president has said nothing different than what the Obama administration has maintained throughout the debate: The tax cuts must be extended on middle-class households before considering tax breaks for the wealthy.

    I think he was speaking out of turn, and I do think that the President must know better than to make a deal like that. Lots of Dems are running against the Bush tax cuts this year.

    Parent

    I agree with BTD (none / 0) (#17)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:02:34 AM EST
    or at least I think I do.  trading a short extension of tax cuts for the rich will be the deal for getting any tax cuts.  I have read a couple of times that is what is likely to happen.

    as insane as that sounds.


    Parent

    Wait a sec (none / 0) (#19)
    by andgarden on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:04:43 AM EST
    I misread BTD's comment to say a short term extension of the MC tax cuts!

    I do think that you are right about what a deal may be, but I also think that the President will get the opportunity--and should take it--to veto a bill extending all of the tax cuts forever.

    Parent

    If that's the starting point, (none / 0) (#28)
    by inclusiveheart on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:15:47 AM EST
    I think we'll end up with an increase on the middle class - a stealth increase that most people (except for a few bloggers - and Nobel Prize winners - who will be discredited) won't notice immediately - and a long-term extension of the cuts for the wealthy.

    That's just my prediction based on how things have gone so far.

    Parent

    Even two more years of tax cuts (none / 0) (#23)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:08:14 AM EST
    to the wealthy while experiencing a lost decade....and cuts to Social Security?  This will finish this President.  He will be done after that for good.

    Parent
    I disagree (none / 0) (#29)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:23:23 AM EST
    It was terrible and it tells what the deal will be.

    Parent
    When Joe speaks out of turn (none / 0) (#30)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:31:30 AM EST
    He's actually telling the truth.  

    Parent
    Usually huh? (none / 0) (#42)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:56:10 AM EST
    No surprise Christmas or Bday presents in the Biden house :)  And don't ask him if something makes your butt look too fat unless you really want to know :)

    Parent
    Aha, that ad (5.00 / 3) (#46)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 10:00:24 AM EST
    cracks you up, too?

    Parent
    If you to have to ask (none / 0) (#64)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 11:42:25 AM EST
    If your butt looks too fat in something, it probably does.  :)

    Parent
    I'm willing to (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 08:48:19 AM EST
    bet money that Obama will give them everything they want in the name of bipartisanship. I will gladly eat my words if it doesn't happen though.

    Look Obama is weak. He is a pushover and the GOP knows it. If he couldn't get anything done with the majorities he had then you know he's not going to get one thing done without them.

    Parent

    Why weak? (5.00 / 6) (#58)
    by waldenpond on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 11:10:07 AM EST
    I don't understand some of the descriptions Obama.  He's not weak, he's a Repub.  He's not ineffective, he's a Repub.  He's doing what he wants to do which is following through with his conservative values.  In one interview he noted that other world leaders see him as a conservative.

    At the blogger meeting he was asked if he was a progressive.... he waxed poetic about Lincoln being a progressive, that Lincoln is a Repub and that the principles he values traditionally have a home in the Repub party.

    Parent

    Well (none / 0) (#67)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 11:55:39 AM EST
    that's another way of looking at it. He is a lily livered Dem or a Republican.

    Parent
    heck (none / 0) (#14)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 08:55:30 AM EST
    you have people like Tweety explaining that a republican house with a democratic (pfft) senate and a democratic white house is the recipe for dealing with all our most pressing problems.

    like the cat food commission which he specificially named.  if not the same way I did.  that is what I fear.  that he is correct.

    if he is O will be a one termer.

    Parent

    O is a one termer (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:05:37 AM EST
    based on where we are right now, and the crap he is selling via the blogger meeting and the Stewart interview....he is a one term President.  In two more years, as this lost decade grinds more people to crap but Wall Street was saved until there wasn't anything to save it with anymore, he is likely to be as unpopular as Bush was before we could finally get rid of him.  And it is O's own fault.  He is playing this game how he wants it played.  He did get himself elected so that is his right, but the country is going to remove the job from him because we must have a bold President at this time.....not this, what we have right now will put the democracy at risk because citizens aren't citizens anymore...they are chattle.

    Parent
    Someone on Morning Joe today (5.00 / 4) (#31)
    by inclusiveheart on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:32:45 AM EST
    said that the White House folks are worried that if Feingold loses, he might go hang around Iowa.  I thought that was interesting.  I also thought that they should have done more to help people like him.

    Parent
    I would definitely like to see (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by MO Blue on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:38:13 AM EST
    Feingold hang around Iowa if he loses.

    Parent
    Read an article somewhere recently (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:38:33 AM EST
    (Can't find it now) about how the Obama administration is playing real nice with Bloomberg - dangling jobs in front of him, playing golf with him, and generally cozying up to him because if the economy is bad in 2012, Bloomie might consider an independent run, since he passed it up in 2008.  Don't know how much truth there is to it (the WH, of course, denies it), but it's interesting to speculate.

    Parent
    There are so many potential (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:57:52 AM EST
    candidates out there under the existing circumstances....there just isn't enough time for that much golf :)

    Parent
    Not the guy for Iowa (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:43:15 AM EST
    --  or much of the country, sadly.  Twice divorced, single now, Jewish, and his record does not lean toward lots of agricultural giveaways aka farmer welfare.  (That comes up in areas of Wisconsin.)

    Parent
    I didn't know that personal data (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:48:03 AM EST
    Maybe not the guy for the nation, but maybe just the guy for ruffian....stalking commenced ;-)

    Parent
    would still like to see it though (none / 0) (#44)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 10:00:13 AM EST
    needed push back for Obama.

    Parent
    Extremely bad times do open doors (none / 0) (#45)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 10:00:15 AM EST
    for Americans to overlook certain things.  This job will go to who everyone thinks can really do it and fight for the individual next go around.

    Parent
    Iowans are atypical (none / 0) (#71)
    by Cream City on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 01:09:38 PM EST
    Americans in many ways, as I bet that you recall.

    Parent
    Maybe he would be our next (none / 0) (#74)
    by Inspector Gadget on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 03:27:57 PM EST
    historical first? More than half the country can relate to him.

    Parent
    I think Obama will be primaried (5.00 / 1) (#38)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:44:56 AM EST
    or he will opt to not run.  In two more years the Democratic party will be faced with either primarying him, replacing him, or suffering a social scar that will compare to Vietnam.

    Parent
    I really haven't a clue how all of (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by inclusiveheart on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 11:05:04 AM EST
    this stuff will play out over the next two years.  There are far too many variables this far out to predict.  Unless there is some radical change in the administration's course, I don't see good things for him or the Dems, but what that means is not clear given the radical nature of the people that the GOP is poised to bring on board.

    Parent
    In that case I almost hope he loses (none / 0) (#33)
    by ruffian on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:36:12 AM EST
    I would loooove to see him mount a primary challenge.

    Parent
    well (none / 0) (#21)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:07:58 AM EST
    he has two years.  and a lot can happen in two years.

    but he better come out swinging and he better have his game face on.

    ask me if I expect that.

    Parent

    Not in the economy he has set (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:10:44 AM EST
    himself up for having to function in.  Things will be even worse for people in two years and he will be on the record giving everything away to the wealthy.  He doesn't believe that is where the economy is, that is plain to see, but he is living in enormous denial and he is done.

    Parent
    Do you expect it? (none / 0) (#27)
    by Ga6thDem on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 09:11:50 AM EST
    Eom

    Parent
    I expect this (none / 0) (#55)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 10:58:59 AM EST
    the former Republican vice presidential candidate tells ET she'll run for president in 2012 "if there's nobody else to do it."


    Parent
    Of course she will (none / 0) (#57)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 11:08:14 AM EST
    The question is - can she get the independent vote to win (they vote in primaries too).

    The answer is (for now) a big fat NO.  I don't see her winning independents over any time soon.

    Parent

    how many independents (none / 0) (#60)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 11:22:46 AM EST
    vote in republican primaries.

    anyway that was not really the point.  the hubris was the point.

    Parent

    A politician with hubris? (none / 0) (#62)
    by jbindc on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 11:41:17 AM EST
    I'm shocked.

    Parent
    Even if he did it, which i doubt (5.00 / 3) (#52)
    by TJBuff on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 10:34:56 AM EST
    No renewal is possible.  Indeed, he's left himself a dozen landmines for his second two years.  He's still in Iraq (the 50,000 noncombat combat troops), it's looking as though he's not getting out of Afghanistan, and the coming catfood commission recs (which he will not oppose).  Any of these, along with 10% unemployment, is going to destroy his run.

    Parent
    And he will not take one bit of blame (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by nycstray on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 11:41:53 AM EST
    i can hear it now . . . heck, i could prob even write his talking points, lol!~

    Parent
    Such pervasive (none / 0) (#68)
    by oculus on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 12:01:15 PM EST
    disillusion.

    procedural... (none / 0) (#70)
    by diogenes on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 12:29:41 PM EST
    If the homeowner could afford the mortgage then there would be no foreclosure.  By delaying the sale of defaulted properties you only delay the resolution of the housing mess.

    sale to whom? (none / 0) (#72)
    by CST on Thu Oct 28, 2010 at 01:10:41 PM EST