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The Ignorant Media And "Advocacy" From The Bench

On MSNBC, Norah O'Donnell interviewed Warren Richey, who today reported in the Christian Science Monitor on the oral argument in the Second Circuit in the Ricci case. The interview yet again exposed the deep ignorance of the Media. O'Donnell in particular argued that Sotomayor was an "advocate" in the case. Richey made the inaccurate statement that it is "unusual" for cases such as Ricci to be decided by summary order. Tom Goldstein has already debunked this false claim:

From the pool of 50, the panel affirmed a district court’s decision rejecting a claim of employment discrimination or retaliation (as in Ricci) 28 times; it did so by unpublished order in 24. Whatever one thinks of the argument that the issues in Ricci deserved more attention than the panel gave them, the decision not to publish an opinion seems to have been pretty commonplace.

(Emphasis supplied.) More . . .

In the article, Richey highlighted this part of the oral argument:

The firefighters’ lawyer was urging the judges not to treat her clients as unskilled workers. “This is a command position in a first-responder agency,” she said, not garbage collectors. The safety of the firefighters and the community is at stake, the lawyer said. Sotomayor interrupted Torre and made an uncharacteristic advocate-like statement. “Counsel, we are not suggesting unqualified people be hired – the city is not suggesting that, all right.” It is unclear who the judge was referring to as “we.”

(Emphasis supplied.) Actually it is perfectly clear who Sotomayor is referring to - she is referring to the court. The continuation of the discussion makes this clear.

The judge then explained her point: “If your test is going to always put a certain group at the bottom of the pass rate so they are never, ever, going to be promoted, and there is a fair test that could be devised that measures knowledge in a more substantive way, then why shouldn’t the city have an opportunity to try … to develop that?”

Sotomayor was referring to binding Second Circuit precedent on Title VII. Richey himself acknowledged this earlier in his article:

The Second Circuit, which covers New York, Vermont, and Connecticut, has three longstanding legal precedents on the books supporting the city’s position in the Ricci case.

Richey apparently did not understand what that meant. Indeed, Richey seems unfamiliar with the way oral arguments occur in appellate courts. Norah O'Donnell also seems ignorant of these proceedings as well. For example, would she call Chief Justice Roberts "an advocate?" His performance in the oral argument in Ricci was that of an advocate seeking to overturn long settled precedent on Title VII. But Chief Justice Roberts is a "moderate" and "modest" justice we are told. Of course this is false. Chief Justice Roberts is a brazen extreme conservative activist judge. In an earlier post, I wrote about Chief Justice Roberts' questioning at the oral argument in Ricci:

MR. KNEEDLER [Attorney for the United States]: [Y]our question had two parts of it. You said there are too many blacks or too many whites. That is not a permissible objective under our view. The employer's action has to be tied to a concern about a violation of the disparate impact of under Title VII.

CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: That's the part I don't understand. What you're saying is that the department can engage in intentional discrimination to avoid concern that they will be sued under disparate impact. Why doesn't it work the other way around as well? Why don't they say, well, we've got to tolerate the disparate impact because otherwise, if we took steps to avoid it, we would be sued for intentional discrimination? This idea that there is this great dilemma -- I mean, it cuts both ways.

I wonder if Norah O'Donnell thinks that is "advocacy?" I wonder if Richey thinks that is appropriate "advocacy" by a Justice. But Chief Justice Roberts is a "modest" and "moderate" justice.

What about this?

CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: Can I ask you to touch on the distinction between racial discrimination and race-conscious action? The actions that were taken in many of our cases, in Croson and Adarand, Parents Involved, Wygant, were obviously race-conscious actions; there was a reason that the governments in those cases were taking the action. It was because of what they saw as the impact on race. Yet we concluded that was racial discrimination. So what's the -- how do you draw the line between race-conscious that's permitted and racial discrimination that's not?

MR. MEADE: Well, two answers, Mr. Chief Justice. First of all, this race consciousness is race consciousness that's mandated by Federal law. This is not a discretionary decision by an employer.

Is Chief Justice Roberts "advocating" for overturning Griggs? What will Norah O'Donnell say? How about Richey? But Chief Justice Roberts is a "moderate" and "modest" justice.

How about this?

CHIEF JUSTICE ROBERTS: I guess it would go to how you construe the statute. It seems to me an odd argument to say that you can violate the Constitution because you have to comply with the statute.

MR. MEADE: Well[,] I would disagree. That would only be true if there were some doubt as to the constitutionality of the disparate impact provisions. But . . . this Court first articulated "disparate impact." Congress has reaffirmed that.

Does Norah O'Donnell think Chief Justice Roberts is "advocating" here? Does it "shock" her? How about Richey?

But Chief Justice Roberts is an "moderate" and "modest" justice. He would never "advocate" now would he?

Here's a suggestion for our ignorant Media - of you want to learn how our appellate courts make legal sausages, perhaps they could learn how the Supreme Court does it. Perhaps they could discover that Chief Justice Roberts is not really "moderate" and"modest," but instead an extreme, brazen and radical extreme conservative judicial activist. But of course he is a white man, so no worries I suppose.

Speaking for me only

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  • Display: Sort:
    Most people don't understand oral arguments (5.00 / 2) (#2)
    by Maryb2004 on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 09:38:32 AM EST
    probably because there has never been a successful tv show built around an appellate practice.  

    OMG (none / 0) (#3)
    by Capt Howdy on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 09:46:14 AM EST
    what a sad and true comment

    Parent
    Question......... (none / 0) (#14)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 01:48:00 PM EST
    Ongoing argument with my attorney... who claims oral arguments are purely for "show,' and/or for the purpose of allowing the litigants to "vent." He claims the judges make their decisions, virtually 100% of the time, based on the written briefs, and the decision is a fait accompli before the oral arguments are even heard.

    Anyone here with firsthand experience to help me
    out?


    Parent

    I wouldn't say 100% (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by Steve M on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 01:52:53 PM EST
    but certainly oral argument changes the outcome in a distinct minority of cases, at least at the appellate level.

    Parent
    Yeah, and (none / 0) (#17)
    by NYShooter on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 02:18:47 PM EST
    I would guess those attorneys who do a lot of appellate work know which judges are open to persuasive oral presentations, and which judges "can't be bothered."

    I've always been dismayed how many judges rank actual justice below procedural tidiness.


    Parent

    Psst. Let this be OUR secret. (none / 0) (#19)
    by oculus on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 04:01:18 PM EST
    Let's write up a proposal for a reality show based on oral argument at the Court of Appeals.  

    Parent
    Can't really see (5.00 / 0) (#5)
    by Steve M on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 09:47:59 AM EST
    how that statement by Sotomayor is even mildly unusual for an oral argument.

    Why, in the so-called Information Age (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 10:15:23 AM EST
    is the Media getting less and less informed?  I really don't get it. It can only be explained by laziness.

    To the extent that the Sotomayor appointment is dependent on fair, informed public discourse, it is doomed. I hate to say that we have to rely on the loyalty of the Senate Dems to hold the line under media attack, but I think we do.

    Can someone please tell me (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by Socraticsilence on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 10:24:27 AM EST
    what other than naked hypocrisy allows Conservatives to decry "judicial activism" or the "politicization of the bench" while supporting Justices like Roberts and Alito, much less lauding the author of perhaps the most nakedly partisan ruling in Supreme Court History (Scalia, Bush v. Gore- the only decision I can think of that contained specific instructions that it not be applied to any other case, and that is basically the only time that Scalia has ever been considered with Equal Protection or the rights of voters).

    See, you pointed that out in 5 seconds (none / 0) (#11)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 10:27:00 AM EST
    What is stopping the media, or Reid, Leahy, Obama, etc?

    Parent
    Laziness? (none / 0) (#12)
    by jbindc on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 10:35:40 AM EST
    Or an agenda?

    Parent
    The media (none / 0) (#1)
    by eric on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 09:28:22 AM EST
    does not understand much about the law, generally.  I honestly don't know why they don't hire some lawyers to go through these stories and point out how stupid they sound.

    Sometimes they do (none / 0) (#4)
    by lobary on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 09:47:17 AM EST
    But they only bring in legal experts to discuss high profile criminal cases.

    Sigh.

    Parent

    Ah (none / 0) (#9)
    by jbindc on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 10:22:58 AM EST
    But the truth is boring!  It's much sexier to say "advocacy from the bench" or "judicial activism" or "racist comments" (especially when taken out of context and spoken by a brown person).

    Parent
    A number of subjects (none / 0) (#7)
    by Wile ECoyote on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 10:04:43 AM EST
    Military is another one that comes to mind.

    Parent
    It isn't that they don't have experts. (none / 0) (#15)
    by inclusiveheart on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 01:52:14 PM EST
    It is the quality and ideology of the experts.

    The conservative think tanks have spent years developing relationships with the major media outlets and setting up their stable of talking heads as the "go to" experts on a lot of fronts - especially in the areas of the law and the military.

    Parent

    Emily Bazelon on Slate wrote yesterday: (none / 0) (#6)
    by steviez314 on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 09:51:01 AM EST
    And in the 2nd Circuit, I'm told, there's a premium on unanimity and consensus, so a 3-0 unpublished opinion might trump a 2-1 published one, in some cases and in some judges' eyes.

    So an unpublished Ricci decision really might be a way to get consensus on a difficult issue.

    "It can only be explained by laziness." (none / 0) (#13)
    by tokin librul on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 11:29:24 AM EST
    They're doing no more or less than they're told or encouraged to do, by the CorpoRat ownership-management.

    Newspaper writers do not normally 'free-lance' stories. They are assigned stories, or beats, and they learn soon enough how the editors/publisher want those stories told or written. If what you write doesn't comport with the (often implicit/ tacit) instructions/expectations of the Editors or the publisher (or sometimes the Ad Director), your work gets spiked, you get remembered as somebody wh is not a team player.

    The death of the "press" as fourth estate began and is now almost competed with the CorpoRatization of the media as profit-centers in corps which are frankly antithetical with the notion of an investigative press...

    CorpoRats who had found themselves objects of press scrutiny were always all to happy to purchase news outlets, strip them of valuable assets, reduce their size and influence, and crap all over "news values" in favor of revenue enhancements.

    That is a better explanation (none / 0) (#18)
    by ruffian on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 02:44:40 PM EST
    Who was it that said 'Never expect a man to understand something when his job depends on him not understanding it.'  

    Parent
    Upton Sinclair (none / 0) (#21)
    by tokin librul on Wed Jun 10, 2009 at 09:16:38 AM EST
    a 'socialist' novelist and essayist, circa 1925

    Parent
    spin (none / 0) (#20)
    by diogenes on Thu Jun 04, 2009 at 10:11:29 PM EST
    The fact is that Sotomayor supported rendering the test void despite the fact that it was specially designed to not be discriminatory.  It is possible that there is no written test in the universe that provides "equal outcomes" among all races just as there is no basketball tryout that would render an NBA team 80 percent white.  If Sotomayor supports quotas to allow equal outcomes, then she can openly say so.
    Of course, the people are hurt most by quotas were the Jews (Jew quotas in Ivy league in the 1920's) and Asians today, especially in the California university system.  Heck, a quota for whites would help my kids get into medical school since all those Asians and Indians would be limited in spots.