Monday Afternoon Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Media
Posted on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:23:00 PM EST
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You may have to turn the volume up or double click on the video to get to You Tube where you can click the "watch in high quality" button. It's Don Henley singing "Dirty Laundry" at the 1993 MTV Inaugural Ball which he most appropriately dedicates to "President and Mrs. Clinton." I made the video from the VHS tape I recorded of the gala in 1993.

Media bias against the Clintons is nothing new.

This is an open thread as I'm still at work.

< Palin On Freddie and Fannie | ABC/WaPo Poll: McCain By 2 >

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Monday Afternoon Open Thread | 65 comments (65 topical)

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Best Clinton Line of the day (5.00 / 3) (#20)
by bjorn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:02:27 PM EST

"Asking the Republicans to clean up their own mess, is like asking the iceberg to save the Titantic"....or something like that..saw it on MSNBC...come on Barack you need some new lines like that one and stay focused on the economy. Do not get distracted by Palin.

Movement the wrong way in Michigan (5.00 / 1) (#30)
by Southsider on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:35:11 PM EST

Per RealClearPolitics, Obama now only up +1 in the latest PPP poll (Sept. 6-7, 1147 LV, MoE +/- 2.9%):

Obama 47 (+1 vs. last poll, July 23-27)
McCain 46 (+3)
Und 7

link.

Dammit.

What Do You Think (none / 0) (#61)
by flashman on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 05:04:49 PM EST

Of Nancy Pelosi's comments that the polls don't take into account 'new' voters? In her opinion, Obama is winning comfortably, and the polls are wrong because they don't account for new voters.

Parent

: Well O does better in polls (none / 0) (#63)
by nycstray on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 05:18:51 PM EST

that are registered voters vs likely, but still behind. Wouldn't "new" voters be included in registered voters?

Parent

Obama as campaigner (5.00 / 1) (#31)
by AlSmith on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:36:38 PM EST

I get the feeling that Obama like delivering important high profile speeches but he doesnt really like the nuts and bolts of campaigning (never mind governing).

Bill Clinton liked campaigning and meeting people. Making them feel important and positive about him. So does Bush. But remember the Obama waffle comment? I think he just isnt that into the process of campaigning.

Here is a comment from his PA fund raiser:
""I hope you guys are up for a fight. I hope you guys are game because I haven't been putting up with 19 months of airplanes and hotel food and missing my babies and my wife - I didn't put up for that stuff just to come in second," he said. "
NYT The Caucus

Interestingly he is still on what I'd call Obama1.0:
""For the next 60 days," Mr. Obama said, "their assignment is going to be to see if they can snuff out that spirit in this campaign and to knock me down more than one peg.""

I remember when the press used to sneeringly (5.00 / 2) (#62)
by hairspray on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 05:05:20 PM EST

refer to Clinton's "pressing the flesh" as if it were some kind of abhorrent behavior. I also recall reading that Clinton landed on an aircraft carrier and gave a speech and spent the next 4 hours shaking the hand of every sailor and thanking them for their service. The left doesn't get it.

Parent

I'd like to put together a (none / 0) (#33)
by ruffian on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:40:34 PM EST

compilation video of all the things Obama says people are trying to do to him. I'm sure those parts are just a small, amusing, section of his stump speech, but I bet The Daily Show could do a great montage.

Parent

: That Reminds Me (5.00 / 1) (#48)
by flashman on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:41:47 PM EST

Of when he was trying to counter people who were saying he should have waited until he was more experienced before running. He said something like, "They want me to wait until all the 'hope' gets boiled out of me." Heh! I though 'hope' was eternal.

Parent

SUSA Virginia (5.00 / 1) (#38)
by WS on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:07:44 PM EST

New Virginia poll from SUSA

M: 49
O: 47

Virginia

African American numbers are 84-14. I read from the PPP blog he needs 39% of the white vote (he's at 37% in this poll) to win the state assuming 90% African Americans and 60% Latino/Asians vote for O.

Don't most Asians vote Republican? (none / 0) (#41)
by haner on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:28:09 PM EST

But I guess they are such an insignificant minority compared to Latinos and blacks.

Parent

: Used to I think (none / 0) (#43)
by WS on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:34:55 PM EST

In 2004, cnn exit polls had Asians voting for Kerry 56-44. Hopefully that continues this year with the Latino numbers pulling the Latino/Asian combined numbers higher.

Parent

For those that like to research on the Internet (5.00 / 2) (#40)
by flyerhawk on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:26:00 PM EST

and can't afford/justify nifty things like Lexis/Nexus, Google is now digitizing old newspapers and magazines..

http://news.google.com/archivesearch

I did a search on Pearl Harbor just to check out the tool.

All I can say is wow!

Not only did they have a ton of stuff already but click on a link and you can open up the issue of the newspaper that the article was in and browse it.

I clicked onto a New Year's, 1941, edition of ths St. Petersburgh Times and found an article by Ernie Pyle as well as a story about the government imposing a price ceiling on cigarettes.

Some of the stuff you have to pay for but I still thought it was pretty interesting.

Old? You want OLD? (5.00 / 4) (#49)
by Cream City on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:42:57 PM EST

Check your wonderful Library of Congress. Its project to digitize 19th-century newspapers is ongoing and great. And many other archives are digitizing these days, such as the one with the second-largest collection of newspapers, the Wisconsin Historical Society. Now online there, for just one example, is the complete (couple of years) run of Freedom's Journal, the first AA newspaper in this country, circa 1827.

Nothin' more fun than reading 19th-century newspapers, when they really knew how to write -- such as one of my favorites, from an abolitionist editor against the opposition's "kaleidoscopic tergiversations." Sorta the BTD of his day.:-)

Parent

Thanks CC (none / 0) (#52)
by flyerhawk on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:48:54 PM EST

I didn't know about that. I will have to check that out.

Parent

: Let me know if you have as much fun (none / 0) (#68)
by Cream City on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 06:23:04 PM EST

as I do with these sites -- loc.gov and wisconsinhistory.org. I especially enjoy the American Memory collection at loc.gov, and be sure to look for old photos and music streams and more, too. And I get lost for hours at wisconsinhistory.org -- don't be fooled by the name of the society in that sig; the Wisconsin Historical Society has what some consider to be the premier collection on North American history in the world. Its iconographic collection alone means more than 60,000 American history photos online and more to come. And again, both have great newspaper collections, and much online now. I could go on and on . . . but I'll forward to hearing what you think.

Parent

Wow is right (none / 0) (#50)
by addy on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:45:57 PM EST

Although my search on Basil Rathbone brought up lots of $3.95 pay stuff. Not a lot of free archives.I'll click further in and see if there's some old Photoplays to read.

Parent

Biden (5.00 / 2) (#56)
by Coral on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:53:42 PM EST

Check out this clip of Biden campaigning on Youtube that I saw on Juan Cole's site today.

Obama & Biden -- more of that, please.

That was good. (5.00 / 1) (#59)
by indy in sc on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:58:00 PM EST

Here's another good Biden clip. Agree with you--more like this!

Parent

I'll check that out (none / 0) (#57)
by ruffian on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:55:48 PM EST

I heard Biden do a town hall this afternoon - I thought he was great.

Parent

I'll elaborate (5.00 / 1) (#60)
by ruffian on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 05:00:01 PM EST

He addressed Social Security head on and factually: No problem intil the 2040's; he was very firm about NO privatization; they will study a variety of fixes for beyond the 2040's and work in a bi-partisan way to pass them, as they did in the 80's. Very good answer to the question asked by a voter.

Parent

oops, I thought in the debates that was (5.00 / 2) (#64)
by Teresa on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 05:25:41 PM EST

Hillary's line and Obama said we were nearing crisis?

Parent

: Yep. And Obama was wrong (5.00 / 3) (#69)
by Cream City on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 06:24:14 PM EST

as Clinton kept saying. She was shouted down for it; Biden is quite the boyo for saying it. Go figure.

Parent

Federer - 5 in a row (5.00 / 1) (#71)
by oldpro on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 06:31:29 PM EST

...beats Andy Murray in the US Open.

Still stuck on Football (none / 0) (#1)
by CST on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:35:20 PM EST

Tom is out for the season to have surgery...

Here's to hoping Matt Cassell is secretely Tom Brady in disguise...

The football gods.... (none / 0) (#3)
by kdog on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:42:40 PM EST

apparently weren't done smiting the Patriots for running up the score against their opponents during the regular season last year.

Fist they took the title, now they've taken the golden-armed golden boy. Moral of the story... taunt the football gods at your peril.

Parent

It's the other team's job to stop (5.00 / 2) (#12)
by ChuckieTomato on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:54:42 PM EST

the scoring. It's called defense.

Parent

Yea (none / 0) (#13)
by CST on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:57:12 PM EST

I remember people complaining when Matt Cassel ran the ball in for a TD we were "running up the score"

Please. If Matt Cassell can RUN the ball in for a TD, that is 100% on the defense. We'd already taken out Tom. Matt had to use the time to show what he can do.

Parent

: My brother lives in Boston. (none / 0) (#74)
by sarcastic unnamed one on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 06:39:54 PM EST

He also uses the first person when talking about he Pats. It's a cult.

Parent

Tell it to the gods.... (none / 0) (#21)
by kdog on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:03:14 PM EST

it's their rule to never run up the score to humiliate an opponent.

It's one thing when you are running the ball, trying to grind down the clock, and keep scoring. But what the Pats did last year, passing in the second half when up by 3 TD's or more, is just bad form, and extremely poor sportmanship.

And the football gods have spoken...

Parent

My mother should be happy (none / 0) (#7)
by CST on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:48:55 PM EST

To this day she blames the 2004 election loss on the fact that the red sox won the world series so there couldn't be too much good karma, or something like that.

She's been praying that the pats lose so the sports gods don't take it out on us again with this election...

Personally, I want to win them all :)

Parent

: Sheeeeet.... (none / 0) (#22)
by kdog on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:04:53 PM EST

if the Mets can hold off the Phils, win the division, and go on to win it all....I'll take Kim Jong as president:)

Parent

I am rooting for Cassel (none / 0) (#6)
by bjorn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:47:55 PM EST

since he had to sit behind Carson Palmer at USC, and the Matt Lienart. It would be great if he could now be the one that really does well in the NFL and goes all the way! Matt Lienart is so so and not even starting at Arizona Cardinals this year, and Carson Palmer is stuck on the perpetually mediocre Bengals!

Parent

I thought I had hit the jackpot when.... (none / 0) (#8)
by Maria Garcia on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:49:57 PM EST

...I managed to snag Tom Brady in my fantasy football league. Also, I had to release him today. But I was able to pick up Brett Farve. I'm hoping that I'm not a jinx for veteran QBs who have streaks going for consecutive starts. I'd hate to do that to Brett.

Parent

Well (none / 0) (#9)
by CST on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:51:21 PM EST

I don't want Brett to get injured...

But I do hope he tanks this year! (Nothing personal against your fantasy team, just against the Jets)

Parent

Iron man Brett.... (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by kdog on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:00:20 PM EST

never gets hurt.

His consecutive starts streak is the most impressive of all his records. Most QB's can't make it through a whole season, Brett has made it through something like 15 seasons. Like Cy Young's record for wins, that one will never be broken.

Parent

: You're kidding, right? (none / 0) (#47)
by Cream City on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:38:30 PM EST

Take it from one in Packerland: Brett gets hurt. For a long time, he played hurt. In recent years, he couldn't always play hurt. Look back and see.

Parent

I may not play Brett that often..... (none / 0) (#10)
by Maria Garcia on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:53:23 PM EST

....my other QB is Donovan McNabb. I didn't start him yesterday and I should have. So I'm sticking with him for a while.

Parent

: I told my brother (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by lilburro on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:57:38 PM EST

I selected the entire Philadelphia Eagles roster exclusively for my fantasy football team. He flipped out (apparently I would've really been hurting come bye week).
Of course, it is a fantasy fantasy football team...

Parent

Oh well (none / 0) (#18)
by lilburro on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:01:37 PM EST

guess he'll just have to spend more time with Gisele... (sorry, not a Pats fan)

Parent

Dr. Maddow (none / 0) (#2)
by cannondaddy on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:41:43 PM EST

Rachael Maddow's new show debuts after Countdown tonight. Should be pretty good, she's easily smarter than Keith and Bill combined.

well the MSNBC (none / 0) (#5)
by TimNCGuy on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:47:24 PM EST

demotions will be the hot topis on the other cable stations tonight. Do you suppose she will discuss it or pretend it doesn't exist?

Parent

thanks for the reminder (none / 0) (#26)
by ruffian on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:08:32 PM EST

I have my issues wioth Maddow sometimes, but I like her a lot overall. Glad to see the smartest one in the room get a chance.

Parent

: Pllttt.. I won't be watching (5.00 / 3) (#36)
by flashman on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:54:10 PM EST

She's just another in a prime-time lineup of network propaganda tools. No thanks. I've had enough of the lot of them. BTW, seeing Tweety-dee and Tweety-dum being demoted in the politics coverage really tickles me.

Parent

Fun Maddow Article (none / 0) (#53)
by daring grace on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:49:18 PM EST

at the Boston Globe

Parent

Speaking of Football, (none / 0) (#11)
by indy in sc on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:53:50 PM EST

I'd like to take this opportunity to whine about the start to Miami's football year. Both pro and college were just painful to watch this weekend. At least I did see hope on the college front with all the freshman players--the 'Canes should be very good in a year or two.

Canes Looked Good (5.00 / 1) (#46)
by john horse on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:36:15 PM EST

indy,

As far as I'm concerned, Canes looked pretty good even though they lost to UF, especially on defense. They pressured Tebow pretty well for most of the game.

Looks like the Canes and Noles are back. We'll see you in October.

Parent

: Agreed. (none / 0) (#54)
by indy in sc on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:50:12 PM EST

The final score made it look like more of a blowout than it was. I was proud of them for keeping it a 6 point game through 3 quarters. The late scores by UF were the painful part. I really think they'll be a force to be reckoned with in the next couple of years.
Looks like the Canes and Noles can finally get the to the ACC championship game, which most people thought would be an annual affair for them.

Parent

Who's the starting QB? (none / 0) (#14)
by nycstray on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 02:57:21 PM EST

I was watching the game while working yesterday, but I got the impression there was more than one?

Parent

They are using the 2 QB system, (none / 0) (#19)
by indy in sc on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:01:55 PM EST

which I absolutely hate (particularly with two freshman QBs). The starters are Robert Marve and Jacory Harris. Marve is a red shirt freshman and Harris is a true freshman. Marve looked good and they should have just stuck with him for the whole game. Neither one is going to truly develop if they keep splitting time.

Parent

she was talking about the Dolphins not Canes (none / 0) (#23)
by ChuckieTomato on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:07:19 PM EST

I think

Parent

Oh. (none / 0) (#27)
by indy in sc on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:12:42 PM EST

Then the starting QB is Chad Pennington. Just him. They drafted John Beck and also have Chad Henne, but Pennington should have all the starts as long as he stays healthy.

Parent

: Thanks. (5.00 / 1) (#28)
by nycstray on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:17:42 PM EST

They didn't seem to talk about him a lot. I didn't realize he was playing until part way through the game, lol!~
Here's hoping he stays healthy!

Parent

I have a problem with UF (none / 0) (#17)
by ChuckieTomato on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:00:32 PM EST

always having its' way with scheduling.

Miami is the premier program with 3 more National Championships than UF, but if they play Florida they always must visit first.

Five years for Florida to make a return trip is unacceptable.

Parent

I was proud of Pennington's.... (none / 0) (#25)
by kdog on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 03:07:38 PM EST

gutty performance yesterday, looks like Parcells' has the marine mammals moving in the right direction.

Parent

Jeralyn, BTD, et al... (none / 0) (#39)
by Addison on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:16:25 PM EST

...the Matt Yglesias link in the blogroll is to his old Atlantic blog. The new link is:

http://yglesias.thinkprogress.org/

Cycling fans - Lance Armstrong to come back (none / 0) (#45)
by scribe on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:35:45 PM EST

from retirement, race in a bunch of races, including the Tour de France, do it for free, and post all his drug test results on-line.

I guess retirement isn't all it's cracked up to be.

White Women Flocking to McCain (none / 0) (#55)
by nell on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 04:53:35 PM EST

according to the latest ABC News/Washington Post poll posted at The Page, by Mark Halperin...white women were previously 50 Obama 42 McCain, now they are 53 McCain, 41 Obama...

White women determined the 2004 election...

I guess Palin is working her charm after all.

I deleted a subtrhead about Palin's (none / 0) (#65)
by Jeralyn on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 05:33:20 PM EST

infant child. Her personal life is not a topic of discussion. I've lifted the ban of any mention of her children but her private life is still her private life and discussions about her personal mothering experiences are not welcome.

If you'd like to discuss special needs infants or Down's syndrome, feel free to do so in an open thread like this one, but leave Palin out of it.

While the intent may be to praise her, it invites comments that will attack her over it and I'm not willing to host personal attacks on Palin as opposed to attacks on her record, issues positions and other factors germane to her candidacy.

: Used to be that (none / 0) (#72)
by oldpro on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 06:36:11 PM EST

people's religious beliefs and their church membership was out of bounds, too, but now it's fair game.
At least the religious issues are germane to government, unlike the personal habits of individuals running for office.

Parent

Palin's Church: Assembly of God (none / 0) (#66)
by Exeter on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 05:49:38 PM EST

For those of you not familiar with Assembly of God, it is freaky weird "church." This is a big issue. Among the weird things they do is speaking in tongues where members are encouraged to stand up and say jibberish. Pretty funny... and scary.

: That may be so, but... (5.00 / 4) (#67)
by skuld1 on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 06:19:56 PM EST

IMO the last thing the Obama campaign, its surrogates, or online fans need to do is bring up church issues...

Parent
: She left the Assembly of God church (none / 0) (#76)
by tree on Tue Sep 09, 2008 at 03:17:41 AM EST

in 2002. Her church is nondenominational Wasilla Bible Church now.

Parent

More state polls...FWIW (none / 0) (#70)
by NJDem on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 06:25:32 PM EST

The latest Fox News/Rasmussen Reports telephone survey in Ohio, finds John McCain out in front of Barack Obama 51% to 44%

The latest Fox News/Rasmussen Reports telephone survey in Colorado shows Obama attracting 49% of the vote while McCain earns 46%

The latest Fox News/Rasmussen Reports telephone survey in the state finds Barack Obama leading John McCain 47% to 45% in the Keystone state

August. The latest Fox News/Rasmussen Reports telephone in the state shows John McCain with 49% of the vote while Barack Obama earns 47%

Tied at 48% in FL.

all on the homepage of Rasmussen dot com

: sorry (none / 0) (#73)
by NJDem on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 06:39:22 PM EST

the second to last poll is NC (and please ignore the "August").

Parent

Profanity on ABC thread (none / 0) (#75)
by eleanora on Mon Sep 08, 2008 at 10:05:29 PM EST

Didn't see it to flag until after reply-to was closed, sorry Jeralyn.

Monday Afternoon Open Thread | 65 comments (65 topical)

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