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Obama Heckled at Speech in Florida

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:21:13 PM EST
Tags: Barack Obama, 2008 (all tags)
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Sen. Barack Obama got heckled today while giving a speech in Florida. The hecklers were African Americans who wanted to know why he hasn't spoken out for the AA community. The audience booed the hecklers, and to Obama's credit, he gave them an opportunity during the q and a following his talk to ask a question:

"My question is, in the face of the numerous attacks that are made against the African community, or the black community, by the same U.S. government that you aspire to lead," the man started, before naming sub-prime lending, police shootings of blacks, the Jena 6 case and Hurricane Katrina.

"In the face of all these attacks that are clearly being made on the African community, why is it that you have not had the ability to not one time speak to the interests and even speak on behalf of the oppressed and exploited African community, or black community, in this country?" he asked. As some in the audience booed, Obama started his response.

Obama's answer below:

"I think you are misinformed about what you say 'not one time.'" Obama continued. "Every issue you have spoken about, I actually did speak out....I've been talking about talking about predatory lending for the last two years in the United States Senate and worked to pass legislation to prevent it when I was in the state legislature. And I have repeatedly said that many of the predatory loans that were made in the mortgage system did target African-American and Latino communities. I've said that repeatedly. No. 2: Jena 6.

I was the first candidate to get out there and say this is wrong and there has been an injustice that's been done and we need to change it...When Shawn Bell got shot, I put out a statement immediately saying, this is a problem....On each of these issues, I have spoken out. Now, I may not have spoken out in the way you would have wanted me to speak out, which is fine....I have spoken out and I have spoken out forcefully....I passed the first racial profiling legislation in Illinois. I passed some of the toughest death penalty reform legislation in Illinois. So, these are issues I have worked on for decades."

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    Obama Heckled at Speech in Florida | 195 comments (195 topical)
    It has NEVER been my feeling obama (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:23:50 PM EST
    will be of much help to the AA community. He is to involved in the "II" pursuit.

    Ruh roh. (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:23:57 PM EST
    Sen. Barack Obama got heckled today while giving a speech in Florida. The hecklers were African Americans who wanted to know why he hasn't spoken out for the AA community.

    Someone has Trouble with a capital T.

    As long as trouble is defined as... (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Addison on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:25:43 PM EST
    ...getting 93.3291% instead of 93.3295% of the AA vote, yes, this signals "trouble."

    Parent
    He will get 96-98% of the black vote (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:27:50 PM EST
    and this won't change that one bit.

    Parent
    he could get 99.9% (4.20 / 5) (#38)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:37:17 PM EST
    and still lose.  

    Parent
    Irrelevant. (5.00 / 0) (#39)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:38:16 PM EST


    Parent
    turnout is the issue with AA's. (5.00 / 0) (#42)
    by MarkL on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:40:20 PM EST
    I could easily see turnout not meeting expectations, if people feel as those hecklers do.

    Parent
    No evidence of that at all (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:43:49 PM EST
    He treated the hecklers with respect.....

    Parent
    He Treated Hecklers With Respect (5.00 / 0) (#69)
    by daring grace on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:47:36 PM EST
    which is more than you can say about the McCain campaign.

    Wasn't there an item here about the McCain campaign siccing the police or security on two women in line for an event who were wearing tee shirts with a message? Not an Obama message but maybe pro choice or something?

    Parent

    I expect that (5.00 / 0) (#76)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:49:52 PM EST
    he'll see more of this.  Will his answers/claims satisfy those voters?

    18,000,000 voters were obviously not satisfied in the primaries.

    Parent

    The Primaries are (3.66 / 3) (#88)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:54:59 PM EST
    over.

    The more you tear down Obama, the more you boost McCain....It really is that simple....Terribly destructive, but it is what the Left does best.

     

    Parent

    no one is tearing down Obama (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:56:46 PM EST
    he did that himself.  we are seeing the world without blinders.  nothing more.


    Parent
    lol (5.00 / 0) (#120)
    by Faust on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:12:57 PM EST
    Eugene Ionesco could have gotten some material from you.

    Parent
    It is a surreal nonsensical farce (5.00 / 1) (#135)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:18:05 PM EST
    to believe McCain will do anything other than a photo-op to help the environment....but he will give big oil a lot of goodies....

    Parent
    Clearly I was being too subtle. (none / 0) (#148)
    by Faust on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:25:34 PM EST
    My comment was directed at the "world without blinders" comment. The irony was so thick that my laughter prevented me from breathing.

    Parent
    My goof--I thought you were talking to me (none / 0) (#159)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:32:24 PM EST
    I didn't have the comments in nested format.

    Parent
    Good trick, Faust! (none / 0) (#167)
    by oldpro on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:39:13 PM EST
    Typing without breathing.

    Keeps it short.

    Parent

    Maybe MKS and some others should have (4.00 / 3) (#133)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:17:41 PM EST
    visited the wailing wall with obama....Hillary was ALWAYS supposed to be held accountable and be responsible for anything she did.  obama supporters insist on a free ride for the inexperienced one.  NO Hillary supporters have to ever hope for obama to falter; he is doing it all on his own.

    Parent
    McCain Wishes He Was 'Faltering' (5.00 / 0) (#189)
    by daring grace on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:59:46 PM EST
    the way obama is right now.

    Aside from the fact that polling at this point in a campaign is only useful to have fun with, Obama remains competitive in state races, even some emerging purple ones.

    He's got money to burn, committed supporters and the  MSM to work with, not to mention a superb campaign operation.

    By comparison, McCain is fumbling.

    Also, like polls, who knows, but again, for fun...

    How Bad For McCain

    2008 Election Fundamentals


    Parent

    Or, with tunnel vision (4.25 / 4) (#117)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:09:36 PM EST
    applauding every perceived Obama misfortune....

    If he loses, a lot of liberal and progressive causes will die....One of the biggest losses imo will be the environment...The Polar Ice Cap is almost completely melted and will probably be gone in the next 2-3 years.  And, McCain, if he wins, will win riding the oil drilling horse....An Obama victory is the best chance in years of really helping the environment and implementing some of Al Gore's ideas...

    Some former Hillary supporters are criticizing Obama for not agreeing to more drilling....Our oceans are a big sewer as is....I understand most do not care, and it is an "elitist" view that the oceans should have greater protection....

    For some, attacking Obama is more important than protecting the oceans....just another point to hit Obama with in an misconceived and ill-fated attempt to support Hillary.

    It has been fun for some....but having fun in watching a former primary rival have trouble ignores the bigger picture...

    Parent

    More fear-mongering? (5.00 / 3) (#126)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:15:40 PM EST
    If he loses, a lot of liberal and progressive causes will die

    Other than the fact that liberalsand pregressives seem to be in sort supply these days (I haven't seen Obama in action enough to determine his creds there), the dems could manage to pass some beneficial legislation with big enough majorities in each House.

    I will be voting for downticket dems for that reason.

    Parent

    The Presidency matters (5.00 / 4) (#143)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:22:01 PM EST
    No fear mongering.  Just reality:  Another four years of a Republican President will not be good....

    Parent
    LOL--I get a "one" (5.00 / 4) (#203)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:18:37 PM EST
    for saying a Democratic President is better than a Republican one?  On a blog of the Left?

    Wow, I get that some will still support Hillary no matter what, but really...

    Parent

    You think this is fun? (5.00 / 4) (#127)
    by madamab on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:16:00 PM EST
    Speaking for myself, do you have any idea how desperately I wanted to vote for a Democrat this year?

    Do you have any idea how awful it is that I am fighting with my Democratic family because they are Obama worshipers who have massive HDS?

    You think this is FUN?!

    Obama is completely and totally unacceptable to me. Me, a Democrat for 22 years. And it's his fault, not mine.

    I am practically Danish, I'm so depressed about my two choices in the primary.

    This is not f&cking fun. It's absolutely terrible.

    Parent

    Right (4.00 / 4) (#142)
    by flyerhawk on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:21:57 PM EST
    All the Obama supporters in your family are delusional and irrationally hate Hillary but you are reasonable but decided that you simply could not vote for Obama because........ he was mean to Hillary.

    I don't know if its fun for you but you certainly have no interest in actually caring about the issues.  It's about Hillary for you and it has been for months.

    Parent

    Stop reading my mind. (5.00 / 1) (#147)
    by madamab on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:24:16 PM EST
    I care about the issues, and Obama is not believable on them at all. McCain sucks on them too, IMHO.

    I'm not happy.

    Parent

    The difference (5.00 / 2) (#190)
    by flyerhawk on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:00:21 PM EST
    is that you simply BELIEVE that Obama is secretly very bad on the issues despite everything he says to contrary.

    John McCain has clearly stated views that are, in fact, very very bad.  

    As much as you want to equate Obama and McCain the reality is that they are miles apart on virtually all key issues.

    Parent

    Elaborate rationalization (5.00 / 1) (#197)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:10:24 PM EST
    Some need to convince themselves that it is okay to oppose Obama, so they create these elaborate constructs and lines of thought that are based on....nothing, really.

    Parent
    Ultimately this is correct (5.00 / 4) (#205)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:20:41 PM EST
     Obama and McCain are not the same and they are miles apart on key issues.

    Regardless of what you think about Obama, McCain would be worse. And don't expect the spineless ones in congress to save you. They will interpret a McCain victory as the public likes what Bush is doing, that the public would rather keep throwing money down the drain in Iraq. And the GOP will continue to use fear to get their way.

    Democrats suck, because they are cowards. Republicans suck because they are purveyors of fear to rip us off.

    Parent

    No, of course not (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:28:34 PM EST
    But I thought most here supported Al Gore's views....Maybe not....

    This is very simple and clear: A Democratic President helps the environment (and a lot of other things too), a Republican President hurts the environment....

    I always feared that a McCain presidency would mean the end of Roe...but at least some progress could be made on the environment....McCain's selling out to big oil is, however, now complete.....

    Parent

    Say's Law: Environmentalists always lose (5.00 / 0) (#188)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:58:43 PM EST
    Environmentalists have never really prevailed in anything much....some air quality is better; drinking water may be safer....

    But the steady march of destruction continues, feeding off of canards that stopping, even temporarily, its march would be "sending us back to the Stone Age."

    Been around some too.  The oceans are dying....Much of the beauty of our planet is constantly eroding....


    Parent

    No one is talking regression (5.00 / 0) (#198)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:12:25 PM EST
    except Republicans financed by big oil.....

    Parent
    You mean giving up gas guzzlers (5.00 / 0) (#199)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:14:11 PM EST
    in favor of more efficient cars?

    Parent
    Interesting (none / 0) (#181)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:49:54 PM EST
    It sounds like you are for more drilling and not a big fan of Al Gore...

    To each his own....

    Parent

    Obama is responsible (5.00 / 5) (#96)
    by madamab on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:57:23 PM EST
    for his own actions, and his own lack of support from die-hard Democrats.

    If Hillary were the nominee, and doing so poorly against McCain with her own party, I don't believe that anyone but Hillary would be blamed.

    And rightly so. It is not the fault of the voters, it is the fault of the candidate.

    Parent

    Obama is blamed and (5.00 / 0) (#122)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:13:21 PM EST
    constantly....The press turned against him long ago.....

    Those who study such things have found that over 70% of the coverage Obama has received has been negative since June....McCain not so much:  it is about 53-47 negattive for him.....

    Parent

    I did?!!! (5.00 / 2) (#130)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:17:00 PM EST
    The press turned against him long ago.....

    Since when?

    Parent

    There are more surveys (5.00 / 1) (#154)
    by miriam on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:30:04 PM EST
    that support an opposite view of the one you cite: Obama has received far more positive press than McCain.  And in spite of that, he still can't pull ahead with a substantial lead.  Democrats who want to win the presidency should be very concerned at this point. Once again the party appears to be snatching defeat from the jaws of what should have been certain victory---and would be if Clinton were the nominee.

    Parent
    There are only two choices--not three (5.00 / 0) (#162)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:34:47 PM EST


    Parent
    The likely outcome is (5.00 / 1) (#172)
    by tree on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:42:13 PM EST
     that one of those two will become President. But in reality, the choices are infinite. I choose to support neither. Two "No" votes from me.

    Parent
    That was tried in 2000 (none / 0) (#179)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:47:21 PM EST
    Look how good that turned out.

    Parent
    Yes, some people tried that (5.00 / 1) (#185)
    by tree on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:58:12 PM EST
     but in the end enough people voted for Bush to allow the SC to steal the eletion. This year do we really know which candidate is Gore and which is Bush? Personally I'm certain that neither candidate is a Gore and neither is a Bush. So who really will be the worse choice? Each is very bad in his own unique way. If it gives you any consolation, I live in California. If my vote really makes a difference here to the outcome then Obama will have already lost.

      I've often thought recently that in the last two years the Democratic party seems intent on proving Nader right. He wasn't even close to right in 2000. He's much closer to the mark in 2008, thanks to the capitulation of the Democrats.

    Parent

    Actually, about 7...or more! (5.00 / 1) (#173)
    by oldpro on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:43:04 PM EST


    Parent
    Heh, I should have scrolled down (5.00 / 1) (#193)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:04:07 PM EST
    before responding....glad my recollection of choices falls in line with others :)

    Parent
    What has changed? (none / 0) (#191)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:02:14 PM EST
    My ballot generally has some 7 choices for president.

    The DNC is counting on that attitude, though. A democrat is a democrat is a democrat. I need to see something on the platform that would support that belief this time, and it just isn't there.


    Parent

    Sorry but no. (5.00 / 1) (#138)
    by Faust on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:20:12 PM EST
    The problem in this country goes much deeper than individual candidates. Our incredibly thin and stupid national discourse and the deep hatred that the media has against democrats is a very real problem that exists quite independantly of the candidates.

    By your logic the reason that Hillary lost the primary was her own fault. Do you believe that? I've never seen you write anything remotely close to that effect.

    Parent

    If the Florida/Michigan disaster (5.00 / 2) (#153)
    by madamab on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:29:13 PM EST
    had not happened, I might have thought she lost fair and square.

    But it did.

    I believe this is drifting off-topic into personal attacks now. But I guess that is fine in the new and improved TalkLeft.

    I am not remotely interested in explaining myself to people who accuse me of all sorts of ridiculous things.

    Later.

    Parent

    Primaries may be over, but (5.00 / 1) (#107)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:04:06 PM EST
    we don't have a candidate with the experience, leadership, judgment or ability to sit in the oval office and make life-changing decisions for us.

    Instead of spending so much of his time putting campaign strategy to stage, it would be great if he would study and learn so his speeches reflected what the people NEED to hear from him. He is so far removed from what regular people (hundreds of millions) are concerned about.

    One well-studied speech a week would be so much better than daily stumbles.


    Parent

    You really have no clue (5.00 / 0) (#131)
    by flyerhawk on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:17:23 PM EST
    what Obama says on a regular basis, do you?  Instead you r

    I'm fairly certain Obama is able to sit in the Oval Office and make life-changing decisions.

    Parent

    I'm sure people (5.00 / 3) (#149)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:27:03 PM EST
    said the same thing about George Bush.

    Parent
    Oh, dear (5.00 / 1) (#166)
    by sj on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:37:11 PM EST
    You're fairly certain?  You are a dedicated Obama supporter and you are only fairly certain?

    Oh, dear.

    Parent

    Difference Between Supporters and Zealots (5.00 / 1) (#196)
    by daring grace on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:09:42 PM EST
    See, as a supporter, dedicated some days more than others, I'm confident that Obama will handle presidential challenges well. Maybe even 'fairly certain', because, let's face it FISA knocked some of the bloom off his rose for many of us.

    Zealots elevate their candidate to hero status and know know know that (s)he will be PERFECT as president, or better than anyone else on the planet.

    It's funny around here sometimes: you praise your candidate too faintly, you're called on that as some kind of problem (oh, dear). You robustly promote her/his strengths and talents, you've...drunk the kool aid.

    Parent

    Were these his first hecklers? (5.00 / 0) (#98)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:57:49 PM EST
    I haven't heard of any fainting spells at his events during the past hot summer months.


    Parent
    It could mean something (5.00 / 0) (#18)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:29:02 PM EST
    far less optimistic.

    Parent
    In anti-Obama fan fiction, perhaps... (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by Addison on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:30:23 PM EST


    Parent
    Well, (5.00 / 2) (#37)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:36:32 PM EST
    he can't be carried to victory by the AA vote alone.  

    Parent
    Though Perhaps (5.00 / 1) (#57)
    by The Maven on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:44:51 PM EST
    it could end up as "93.3291% instead of 93.3295% of the AA vote", but from a pool that's noticeably smaller than what his campaign is hoping for.  I agree that this wouldn't push AA voters into, say, the McKinney camp, but there's been a lot of expectation of turnout percentages being massively higher than they ever have been in the past, so this sort of thing could dampen that somewhat.

    Parent
    Trouble with a capital T (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:59:17 PM EST
    and that rhymes with G and that stands for General Election.

    Parent
    Net positive for Obama, I think (5.00 / 2) (#8)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:25:51 PM EST
    Same as the Jesse Jackson attack.

    I go back and forth on this (5.00 / 1) (#118)
    by davnee on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:09:45 PM EST
    Part of me agrees that anytime he can be seen in opposition to an "angry black man" that's good for him.  He wants to be the Anti-Jackson or Anti-Sharpton in people's minds.  But then part of me thinks lots of people just might not want to deal with this at all.  Do voters out there in middle America want to sign up for 4 years of witnessing an internecine battle between black people, as the Jacksons and Sharptons of the world keep on asking President Obama what he's done for his people lately?  It may not be fair.  It may not be right.  But I can't help thinking that just might be the way lots of white voters feel.

    So while it is better to be Jackson's opposite in many white voters' minds, I agree, it might be best of all not to be associated with Jackson at all.

    Parent

    Nah (none / 0) (#125)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:15:39 PM EST
    The average white guy is not going to hold it against Obama that people like Jesse Jackson are stirring up trouble.  It's definitely a net benefit to him.

    Parent
    Looks like pushback on Rev. Jackson (none / 0) (#62)
    by wurman on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:45:41 PM EST


    Parent
    Maybe they were plants (5.00 / 0) (#9)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:26:06 PM EST
    intended to give Obama a chance to list all the great things he has said and done for AA's in this country, or at least in Illinois.
    This was my first thought (5.00 / 2) (#23)
    by Valhalla on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:30:24 PM EST
    I wonder if his internal polling is seeing a little blowback from the lecture series to AAs.

    It's pretty clear that the dominant strategy is to max out participation among his base.  If he starts to lose even a few points amongs AAs, the latte crowd, or the college crowd, it's all over.

    That, I think, more than anything is why the campaign is jumping on the race-based arguments rather than issues.  They rile up the base.

    Remember the Maine!

    Parent

    Yeah, that must be it, they were plants (5.00 / 1) (#101)
    by riddlerandy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:59:48 PM EST


    Parent
    They were (5.00 / 2) (#106)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:04:01 PM EST
    activists from the International People's Democratic Uhuru Movement, a pan-African socialist group,

    says the Washington Post. I doubt Obama minded being heckled by them. Gave him his 'pan-African socialist group' moment, you might say.

    Parent

    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:07:07 PM EST
    Fair enough.  Check out the InPDUM home page.

    Parent
    Ah, well that would explain (5.00 / 2) (#119)
    by brodie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:11:04 PM EST
    why that questioner kept repeatedly referring not to the "AA comm'y" but  to the "African community."

    Like I say, Obama earns solid points with the ordinary folks scoring at home with his level-headed, even-tempered response.

    I hope more such disturbances (of a nonviolent nature) occur before November.  If so, we could be looking at a major O landslide ...

    Parent

    Obama was extra smart in his response (5.00 / 2) (#140)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:21:08 PM EST
    to focus on the A-A community, while talking to a pan-African soucialist. He pulled off a rare double-souljah.  I didn't expect to see any of those until the Olympics.

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 3) (#158)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:31:43 PM EST
    The funny part is, you and I get that these hecklers were from a group that is way out there, but you just know the clueless white guys in the media will report this as an indicator of some deep rift in the utterly monolithic African-American community.  "Tonight on CNN: Are blacks turning against Obama???"

    Parent
    God, so true (5.00 / 2) (#168)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:39:35 PM EST
    I can't even watch TV news anymore for just that reason. Factless reporting.

    Parent
    Jeez, Obama has all the luck. (5.00 / 11) (#17)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:28:42 PM EST
    There seems to be a never ending supply of people willing to self-Souljah themselves on his behalf.

    Ding, ding, ding (5.00 / 5) (#20)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:29:38 PM EST


    Parent
    NO kidding!! Me too. (none / 0) (#56)
    by ghost2 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:44:29 PM EST


    Parent
    I laughed so hard (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by Jgarza on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:02:58 PM EST
    when I read that, I almost fell of my chair.  self-Souljah is my new fav word.

    Parent
    Self-souljah (none / 0) (#109)
    by ruffian on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:06:12 PM EST
    is now in my lexicon. Beautiful.  I like it a lot better than 'threw themselves under the bus'.

    Parent
    Good for the hecklers.... (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:30:37 PM EST
    I wish both candidates got heckled a helluva lot more than they do...and everywhere they go.

    Too often the security details and handlers are too adept at keeping dissenting voices out of the campaign events.  Since the media won't hold the candidate's feet to the fire, maybe concerned citizens will...I salute them for speaking out about their grievances...and getting past security:)

    OT: Joe Watkins (5.00 / 2) (#27)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:30:48 PM EST
    GOP strategist just said Obama was trying to stir up a race war. Since I am reliable told on other threads, that McCain is responsible for everything any member of the GOP says, is McCain in trouble now?

    You said you hadn't read (5.00 / 1) (#35)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:32:42 PM EST
    the other threads dealing with this.

    I suggest you do.

    Parent

    a search of comments only turns up this one (none / 0) (#43)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:41:11 PM EST
    with the words Joe Watkins. Your suggestion was not helpful.

    Parent
    Oy. (5.00 / 2) (#49)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:42:11 PM EST


    Parent
    you know what (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:41:22 PM EST
    republicans are very smart.  while people like yourself are running around in a ferret fire drill wringing your hands about race they are defining Obama.
    please follow the link I provided up thread to see what they have in store for "the one".
    clue: it has absolutely nothing to do with race.

    Parent
    I am not the one running around yelling race card (5.00 / 1) (#55)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:43:57 PM EST
    Can you say the same?

    I have pointed out Republicans race bait.


    Parent

    OMG (5.00 / 4) (#72)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:47:56 PM EST
    republicans race bait!?
    REPUBLICANS. get out.
    follow the link.

    Parent
    did you follow the democratic primary? (5.00 / 4) (#85)
    by ChuckieTomato on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:54:32 PM EST
    Maybe McCain learned lessons from watching the race baiting that was used against Hillary.

    Parent
    Maybe? (5.00 / 4) (#95)
    by Valhalla on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:57:11 PM EST
    lol

    Parent
    Howard Wolfson (5.00 / 2) (#102)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:00:55 PM EST
    acknowledged that very fact in the NYT article this morning.

    Parent
    Maybe you should actually study GOP tactics (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:31:18 PM EST
    since Goldwater. Let say for the sake of argument, that Hillary was race baited. Does that change GOP history?

    Try to look at the complete history coldly and not bring your passionate partisanship into it.

    Here let me give just one obvious example of GOP race baiting.

    Parent

    And maybe (5.00 / 1) (#183)
    by ChuckieTomato on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:54:22 PM EST
    a campaign that runs on a platform of change, an end to divisive politics, but then race baits his primary opponent and husband, then complains when the GOP uses the same tactics.

    History includes recent and distant past. I also remember the NAACP television ads in 2000.

    Both sides are guilty.

    Parent

    Frankly I don't care (5.00 / 0) (#200)
    by Molly Bloom on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:14:12 PM EST
    I am not in love with Obama or Democrats. I do think the GOP is demonstratively worse for the country as a whole. The difference between you and me, is I recognize the obvious. You are too blinded by your partisanship loyalty to Hillary to see or care.

    Both sides do it is ultimately a cop out.  

    Parent

    You would be if you had been (none / 0) (#202)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:18:34 PM EST
    paying attention to the blogs and the news for the past two days.


    Parent
    gets my vote for description of the day: (5.00 / 2) (#70)
    by Valhalla on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:47:52 PM EST
    "running around in a ferret fire drill"

    Although, maybe slightly demeaning to ferrets.

    Parent

    I love ferrets (5.00 / 1) (#89)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:55:14 PM EST
    used to have one.  but omg are they manic.

    Parent
    the issue here (5.00 / 9) (#29)
    by TimNCGuy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:31:23 PM EST
    is when Obama talks about all of his accomplishments in the ILL state senate, none  of those accomplishments were really of his doing.

    Obama accomplished nothing in the ILL state senate until his last year there.  That year was when the dems took control of the senate and had some actual power.  At that point Emil Jones led the senate and took all the important pieces of legislation away from their original authors who had done all the work and assigned those pieces of legislation to Obama.  Emil did this specifically to build a resume for Obama because he wanted to get him elected to the US Senate.

    yep (5.00 / 1) (#152)
    by ccpup on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:28:44 PM EST
    and don't think we're NOT going to hear about that as well as him finding Senate work boring, not being ready to run for President as he doesn't even know where the men's room is yet and his penchant for missing days and days and days of work.

    Expect also to get a run down of the legislation he's actually had a hand in since being elected that directly benefited his constituents (clue:  not much) and a running tally of votes missed and why (fundraising).

    All of the above will dovetail quite nicely with the Celebrity Dilettante Inexperienced theme they're presently constructing in contrast to McCain's long history in the Senate and all he's (I'm assuming) done for those who've elected him time and time again.

    Parent

    Obama's response reads better than it sounds (5.00 / 1) (#31)
    by kempis on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:32:02 PM EST
    He did good to take the guy's question, but his response showed the halting delivery that is going to hurt him in Town Halls and debates and, I'm sure, GOP ads challenging his superior oratorical ability. Another example of it is here:

    link

    My worry about Obama has been that the hype has been so intense (the second coming of JFK, RFK, MLK and Diogenes--unflappable and cool--brush 'em off kinda guy) that he cannot possibly live up to it.

    He's been running on this hype with a lot of people who haven't really closely tuned in yet. When they do, moments like these when he seems flustered--even as he does the admirable thing and tries to listen to dissent--will stick a pin in that image and hurt him.

     

    Very true (5.00 / 1) (#47)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:41:45 PM EST
    his response was delayed as long as possible with his efforts to calm the angry crowd to allow the dissenter his chance to speak, and give Obama a chance to think back on what it was he was supposed to say in response.


    Parent
    That is the very definition of picayune (4.00 / 3) (#53)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:43:27 PM EST
    You guys simply will not be pleased by anything the man does.

    Parent
    Sure we will (5.00 / 4) (#58)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:44:55 PM EST
    he just hasn't done it yet.

    Parent
    It will be interesting (5.00 / 1) (#63)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:45:46 PM EST
    to see if this level of criticism continues three weeks from now....

    Parent
    Always wanted to know. . . (5.00 / 2) (#64)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:45:47 PM EST
    what "picayune" means.  I thought it was a newspaper, or something.  Are you sure it means "consumed with hatred of Barack Obama"?

    Parent
    I once smoked a Picayune cigarette (5.00 / 0) (#108)
    by kempis on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:05:05 PM EST
    Are you sure it means "consumed with hatred of Barack Obama"?

    Perhaps that explains it....

    My being less-than-enchanted with Obama surely has no basis in rationality. ;)

    Parent

    Imply/infer. (none / 0) (#100)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:59:37 PM EST
    Literal/figurative.  

    Parent
    FYI: I'm most likely voting for him (5.00 / 6) (#103)
    by kempis on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:02:08 PM EST
    Is that not good enough? Or must I also take big gulps of Kool Aid and say "Mmmmmmm!"?

    Don't "you people" people you don't know.

    I'm critical of him, yes. I'm critical of his campaign. And I'm critical of the current Democratic "leadership" which inspired me to leave the party I'd been a member of for 32 years.

    All of that said, enabling the GOP to remain in control of the executive branch for at least four more years is WORSE than an Obama presidency, IMO, so I'll vote for him.

    But I tell you what: if his supporters continue to be little scolds nipping at ANY criticism of Obama, it's going to be harder and harder to drag myself to the polls on November 3.

    So think about this next time you want to "you people" someone.

    Parent

    Well said. (5.00 / 1) (#165)
    by miriam on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:36:57 PM EST


    Parent
    Reminds me of Obama's (5.00 / 4) (#32)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:32:08 PM EST
    response to those who criticized his vote for FISA:

    Now, I may not have spoken out in the way you would have wanted me to speak out, which is fine
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:34:44 PM EST
    I have no idea who was the first candidate to speak about the Jena 6 issue, but I do recall that it was the subject of the first big blow-up between Obama and Jesse Jackson.  I guess these hecklers must tend more towards Jesse's perception of things.

    In any event, I'm glad Obama put out a statement saying the Sean Bell statement was a problem.  That sounds bold!

    It was exactly (5.00 / 1) (#51)
    by madamab on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:42:33 PM EST
    as the hecklers stated, whether they were "real" hecklers or not.

    Link

    Parent

    It's only a small minority of people (5.00 / 0) (#78)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:50:25 PM EST
    who hear Obama's response that will research its accuracy.

    Parent
    Ah yes. (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by madamab on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:51:36 PM EST
    Remember when we used to have a media?

    Me neither.

    Parent

    Exactly (5.00 / 0) (#124)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:13:53 PM EST
    Of course, had any other candidate made such claims, the fact checking would have been instant.


    Parent
    I think (none / 0) (#91)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:56:17 PM EST
    that both the hecklers and Obama were talking about the shooting itself, rather than the ultimate verdict.

    Parent
    Can't find it. Your turn. (none / 0) (#114)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:07:44 PM EST


    Parent
    Okay (none / 0) (#121)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:13:11 PM EST
    NY Daily News, 12/5/06:

    Elsewhere, Illinois senator and potential presidential candidate Barack Obama, in New York to give a speech for charity, weighed in on the shooting, saying the 50 bullets fired by five officers "strikes me as excessive." But Obama quickly added that police operate with restraint 99% of the time, although "this may be one of the times they did not."


    Parent
    The boldness! ;-) (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by madamab on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:17:32 PM EST


    Parent
    Just think (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:33:30 PM EST
    Amadou Diallo only got 41 bullets, less than Sean Bell.  It's entirely possible he was one of the lucky 99% who was treated with restraint.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#176)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:46:04 PM EST
    Considering that 1% reflects about 221,337.86 arrests per year,  that is not a small number.


    Parent
    Well, there you go (5.00 / 0) (#155)
    by sj on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:30:41 PM EST
    "Now, I may not have spoken out in the way you would have wanted me to speak out, which is fine...."

    It definitely falls into the category of "the way I might have wanted him to speak out".  I think it may be have been better to say nothing than to say something so lame.

    On the other hand, it allowed him to truthfully say that he had spoken out.  Even if he actually said nothing.

    Parent

    Oh good job. I commend you. (none / 0) (#180)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:47:24 PM EST
    Actually, I to not repect people like The Rev. Al who pronounced the officers guilty before they were even charged.  So, Sen. Obama's statement, although waffley, is o.k. with me.  He was, after all, a con law professor.  

    Parent
    Senators Obama and Clinton's (none / 0) (#48)
    by oculus on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:42:10 PM EST
    statements on verdict in officer-involved shooting case re Sean Bell:

    NYT

    Parent

    heh (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:49:55 PM EST
    He withheld judgment, but urged community leaders and the police to come together and peacefully work through the tragedy.

    seems to me our community leaders and police WERE working together on this. iirc, Bloomberg was having sit downs in the community etc. Peaceful protests were planned etc. But thanks for the suggestion O.

    Parent

    Mind meld, oculus. (none / 0) (#66)
    by madamab on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:46:13 PM EST
    If only I knew how to do that Vulcan sleephold too...;-)

    Parent
    He handled it fine (5.00 / 3) (#41)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:39:52 PM EST
    The hecklers were not removed, he asked them to wait until the Q & A session, he then answered their question in a thoughtful way.

    You're right... (5.00 / 0) (#61)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:45:29 PM EST
    he seemed to handle it very well.

    What happened afterwards behind the scenes is another issue...I wouldn't be surprised if some staffer got his/her arse chewed out over not screening the attendees enough to make sure they all had kool-aid in 'em.

    Parent

    Yep, he kept his cool. (5.00 / 0) (#83)
    by brodie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:53:36 PM EST
    Shades of Ed Muskie, 1968.

    I like the way this one will play with the undecided WCWs when they see it on the tube today in their homes in FL and OH.

    And if Obama is smart, he'll give his event staffers a raise and tell them to just keep doing things the way they've been doing 'em.

    Parent

    Their sign was put away (none / 0) (#137)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:19:15 PM EST
    At first the sign was put away, then a man sitting in front of them (I'd have to go back and watch it again...which, I won't do, but not sure he was sitting there when the heckling started) grabbed the sign away from them when it reappeared.

    I don't really think they were plants. Obama's answer was not strong enough.

    There are other links around the net that show the entire event.

    Parent

    That's shocking. (5.00 / 6) (#71)
    by madamab on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:47:54 PM EST
    An eyewitness on DKos says people were thrilled with Obama's responses? Golly!

    Sometimes I wonder if people ever consider the source of their information.

    Considering the source of information. . . (5.00 / 0) (#74)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:49:21 PM EST
    and the bias of people reporting it is something that can benefit everyone, not just people at dKos (although certainly not excluding them, either).

    Parent
    I agree. (5.00 / 0) (#87)
    by madamab on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:54:42 PM EST
    I try to go to the candidates themselves at this point. But even that is suspect, since they are both prone to being rather free with the truth.

    Parent
    Didn't happen to be (none / 0) (#182)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:54:21 PM EST
    TINS, did it? ;-0>

    Parent
    New commenters are limited (5.00 / 4) (#81)
    by Valhalla on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:52:00 PM EST
    to 10 posts in a 24-hour period.  You have 2 left.

    I can tell you're new because you believe citing Kos has some juice here.  It does not.

    ah (5.00 / 0) (#112)
    by ccpup on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:07:17 PM EST
    to be that "young and innocent" again.

    (sigh) those were the days

    :-)

    Parent

    Why you gotta go there.... (5.00 / 2) (#156)
    by kdog on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:30:58 PM EST
    mentioning the comment limit?

    Bad form, imo....bad form.

    Parent

    Markos (none / 0) (#139)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:20:54 PM EST
    Is a personal friend of Jeralyn's. His site is listed in TL daily fixes.

    You may not like the guy but you do not speak for this blog.

    Parent

    I have yet to see, but don't expect to see (5.00 / 2) (#82)
    by thereyougo on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:53:17 PM EST
    Obama come out forcefully on ANY issue, except when Hillary was mentioning it. Like when she said a gas tax holiday was in order when Americans were struggling with 3 and 4$ p.g of gas and Obama shot it down, just to be a snot.

    Today he said he'd like to give us a $1000 stimulus payment  over the last one  which didn't do the trick that we had to borrow to jump start a flailing economy. Sounds good, he's got my ear but, uh, tell me its not going to add to the national debt Senator Obama,I didn't hear that. Talk about a lackluster candidate.

    And pay for it with windfall profits. (none / 0) (#115)
    by Teresa on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:08:04 PM EST
    Isn't that similar to the idea he shot down? I can't remember Hillary's specifics on the tax holiday.

    Parent
    yup. (5.00 / 2) (#128)
    by nycstray on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:16:06 PM EST
    that was how she one-upped McCain on the gas tax holiday. She had a way to pay for it . . .

    Obama took the lowest possible amount of money they could save and basically made her out to be a pandering fool. I did some math. The average indie trucker could have saved over a grand a month. The lowest amount Obama said they would save would have bought 7 gallons of milk (at the time!), which for some families is a big deal.

    Parent

    Hillary wanted a temporary gas tax holiday (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by thereyougo on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:21:10 PM EST
    that while Obama was in the Il Senate was tried.

    It did give some relief to people and she intended to pay for it from big oil profits, which was fair, IMO.

    Parent

    On the other hand... (5.00 / 3) (#134)
    by Anne on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:17:58 PM EST
    this may send a signal to others in the AA community who have felt constrained from challenging Obama, or attempting to hold his feet to the fire, that it's okay to be vocal in their criticism of or disagreement with Obama.

    And that could be a very bad thing for Obama.  Not that I see a shift in the AA voter base to McCain, but it may depress turnout.

    The other thing is that it's going to be a lot harder for the campaign to neutralize the criticism that is coming from the AA community the same way it has the criticism from others.

    Something tells me they never really saw this possibility, are going to be ill-equipped to deal with it and the results could be painful.

    you bring up a great point (5.00 / 3) (#171)
    by ccpup on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:41:01 PM EST
    I was talking with someone a little bit ago about all this and she believes Obama was shocked when the AA community was voting for Hillary.  The thought that they WOULDN'T support him had never entered his mind.

    So, realizing he needed to actually do something to get that vote, he opted to go Nuclear by painting Hillary and Bill as racists.  Short-sighted goal with worked well for a Primary in solidifying one segment of the vote but will now be an albatross around his neck his Opponent will soundly beat him with day in and day out until November.

    I believe in Obama's mind, the AA community will vote for him regardless.  But in the AA community's collective mind, perhaps they're going to need a bit more attention, some promises, something other than "yeah, you'll be there for me regardless, so ..."

    Problem is that's a delicate line to walk.  How does one promise anything to one community without unnecessarily angering everyone else or appearing to favor group X over group Y?  And how does one avoid one's Opponent painting it as such?

    I suspect there may be more than a few AAs who will now begin publicly holding Obama's feet to the fire and demanding What, exactly, is he bringing to their table in exchange for their overwhelming support?  

    In light of Obama's obvious penchant for throwing people overboard once he's gotten what he wants, I don't think he should assume everyone in the AA community will just vote and be happy to put him in the History books.  They'll want something in return and Obama will be 'disappointed' with what they say.

    It'll be interesting to watch.

    Parent

    Gaining alliance would (none / 0) (#186)
    by JavaCityPal on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:58:34 PM EST
    require enough personal merit to earn support. Short of that, the candidate must alienate the people from his opponent in order to gain their vote.

    Again, too many video clips being shown on TV are Obama denegrating McCain with claims that McCain is denegrating him. Hillary supporters spot it easier because they watched so much of it during the primary.


    Parent

    Makes sense to me (none / 0) (#187)
    by sj on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:58:43 PM EST
    I believe in Obama's mind, the AA community will vote for him regardless.  

    He seems to have that attitude about all the historically Dem demographic groups.  

    -- No need to mend fences with Hillary supporters, where else are they going to go?  

    -- Don't worry about pro-choice voters, we're better than McCain. Roe v Wade!!!! Where else are they going to go?

    -- LGBT?  Definitely don't have anywhere else to go.

    How does one promise anything to one community without unnecessarily angering everyone else or appearing to favor group X over group Y?

    Maybe it's just me, but I don't see him making any promises to any constituency.  And we all know he has no overarching cause that he is championing.  Just change [someone] can believe in.

    Man, as I read my own words I just can't believe that some people still think that it was Senator Clinton was the one who felt entitled to the nom...

    Parent

    Much of Obama's trouble (5.00 / 1) (#177)
    by miriam on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:47:18 PM EST
    stems from a presumption that he is already the president.  It's teeth-aching arrogance and even those of us who will reluctantly vote for him are having hard time accepting it.  Change a few words around and he makes one wonder if he's taking arrogance lessons from the same teacher as Manny Ramirez: The Boston Red Sox don't deserve a player as good as I am. [paraphrased].

    I came back to Detroit after studying for my (5.00 / 0) (#178)
    by samtaylor2 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:47:21 PM EST
    Boards and saw something amazing.  The new popular T shirt is Obama.  It is being sold on every street corner you can imagine.  The excitement in this choclate city is off the hook.  Hopefully we can turn this excitement into votes.  I think this is one of the reasons Gramholm is pushing to get our mayor out by september 1st, so that the the focus can be on getting out the the vote here.

    Man (none / 0) (#194)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:04:50 PM EST
    That latest episode with the mayor and the sheriff's deputy was just unbelievable, wasn't it?  Like the guy isn't in enough trouble already!

    If only folks had taken my suggestion and just made Dennis Archer mayor-for-life, maybe we'd be out of this mess by now.

    Parent

    Archer was before I got here (none / 0) (#201)
    by samtaylor2 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:17:40 PM EST
    But he sounded great.  My feeling on the idiot mayor here was that his whole problem was image and not substance.  He was even turning his image around until this whole text message thing came out.  

    It is sad that smart people don't listen to their own words.  He kept saying, the media is out to get me, and they were.   But instead of listening to his own words, he went out and did some stupid stuff and got caught by the same media that was out to get him.

    The problem that Detroit has in getting rid of this mayor is that we need to, but as a group of people, we black people don't care as much as other's who someone is having sex with.

    Parent

    Katrina (5.00 / 2) (#204)
    by mmc9431 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 04:19:57 PM EST
    I was disappointed in his tepid response to the Katrina disaster. But I was disappointed in countries reaction also. Seeing those news clips of American's on American soil dealing with that situation made me want to put my foot through the TV. It may not of had anything to do with race, but I still believe that if this had been Boca Raton, it would have been handled very differently at the federal level. And Leiberman most certainly would have held hearings on accountability.

    Oy (5.00 / 1) (#206)
    by lentinel on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 05:30:32 PM EST
    "When Shawn Bell got shot, I put out a statement immediately saying, this is a problem."

    "This is a 'problem'"???

    Well... that was his answer (5.00 / 3) (#208)
    by Andy08 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 06:07:18 PM EST
    mixed in with all his insufferable sttutering of

    "Uhmm.., but but... aha aha ha wait wait ... here is.. here is .. ahh...wait.... ah aha..."

    The two videos on this:  Part 1

    Part 2

    By the way; Obama voted AGAINST capping at 30% the interest rates of credit cards and their predatory practices.
    One of the very few Dems. to vote with Reps.
    So, no , he hasn't always been against predatory lending...  

    You know, (5.00 / 1) (#210)
    by shoulin4 on Sat Aug 02, 2008 at 07:22:51 PM EST
    as an AA woman, I'm getting pretty fed up with being associated with some giant monolithic being that has no personality, hardly any brain cells, and can be characterized, criticized, and marginalized by those who are not part of what can be called the Borg of Politics.

    That being said, I think Obama responded to the hecklers well. At least he didn't have them thrown out.

    When you run for president, (3.00 / 2) (#14)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:27:46 PM EST
    you have to try to be all things to all people.  It's a neat trick and few do it well.  Obama has, frankly, been particularly bad at it.  His surrogate bus thrower unders haven't helped.

    Another red meat post (1.00 / 2) (#60)
    by Jim J on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:45:28 PM EST
    that has nothing to do with "the politics of crime," but is guaranteed to inflame Talk Left's burgeoning new audience of anti-Obama/former HRC people and attract many, many comments from said group.

    Well played, Jeralyn, well played!

    Hey! One curmudgeon per blog, please. (5.00 / 2) (#73)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:48:25 PM EST
    That's my schtick!

    Parent
    Eh, it's an interesting story (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:49:39 PM EST
    and the Obama hate crowd here will growl at anything he says or does, no matter what.

    Parent
    Honestly, (5.00 / 0) (#92)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:56:43 PM EST
    he's been running for prez since May, 2007.  He was less tha stellar, but his performance in the primary sealed his fate.

    There's only one thing he could do to get my vote, and he apparently isn't going to do that.

    Voting for the lesser of two evils isn't going to work this time.

    He's not suddenly going to become more palatable.

    Too late.

    Parent

    Don't worry (5.00 / 3) (#113)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:07:30 PM EST
    It is also guaranteed to provide opportunities for some of you to make any and all assumptions you like about commenters, and to inaccurately characterize commenters as 'anti-Obama, former HRC people' or 'Obama-haters', 'Hillary cultists', 'McCain shills', etc. because they don't like Obama very much even though many of them have said they will be voting for him and that they think he will win.

    So, don't worry, be happy. Red meat for everyone here.

    Parent

    Well, I'm a HRC supporter (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by LatinoDC on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:19:01 PM EST
    who is now an Obama supporter, and there a lot of us too....

    Parent
    Burgeoning? (5.00 / 0) (#164)
    by phatpay on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:35:45 PM EST
    lol

    I thought Obama did fairly well in handling this situation.

    As to Obama's "halting" responses, I don't have a problem with that. He seems to be carefully measuring his points when things go off script. That's a flaw?
    I watched the entire joint press conference with Sarkozy and Obama. He delivered a lot of his responses in that style. I thought he did extremely well.

    Granted I'm coming from 7 years of, "Fool me once... Foolmah... don't get fooled again.", et al.

    Off topic: Jim J = PPJ?

    Parent

    I'm sorry (none / 0) (#84)
    by Steve M on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:54:12 PM EST
    Are you making these posts in case people are confused about the definition of heckling, or something?

    Parent
    He was the first candidate to speak out (none / 0) (#1)
    by MarkL on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:23:09 PM EST
    about predatory lending? really?
    Then it would be the first time he has been correct in making an "I was first at ...." claim.

    MarkL....I wish I had the strength to go look (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:25:15 PM EST
    up all these claims.  I feel confident in saying they probably aren't accurate.

    Parent
    Whose claims? (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Addison on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:26:56 PM EST
    I, like you, don't feel like checking Obama's "claims" at the moment but I can tell you that if you're talking about MarkL's claims as to what Obama said, yes, they are inaccurate.

    Parent
    I was referring to obama's claims... (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:28:07 PM EST


    Parent
    at least go look at (5.00 / 3) (#13)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:27:11 PM EST
    this

    oh baby

    Parent

    Capt.....I received an epiphany....I must (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:30:27 PM EST
    vote for Hillary.... :)

    Parent
    behold (5.00 / 4) (#33)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:32:17 PM EST
    his mighty hand

    Parent
    that's the point (5.00 / 1) (#174)
    by ccpup on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:44:42 PM EST
    where I officially lost it and fell into a heap of heaving laughter on my couch.

    My dogs quietly and quickly moved to the other side of the room.  I wonder why?

    :-)

    Parent

    its very funny. (5.00 / 2) (#145)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:22:44 PM EST
    and devastating IMO.  humor always works.

    Parent
    Brilliant! (none / 0) (#163)
    by flashman on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:35:20 PM EST


    Parent
    Since he made that (5.00 / 3) (#21)
    by madamab on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:29:49 PM EST
    "The Senate Banking Committee, which is my committee" remark, I haven't had a lot of trust in his claims of working on legislature.

    Parent
    Here you go (5.00 / 3) (#90)
    by Nadai on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:55:17 PM EST
    HuffPo

    Google is your friend.  Well.  Google is my friend.  I doubt you'll be quite so happy with it.

    Parent

    He said it. Your memory is faulty on this (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by tree on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:57:02 PM EST
    "We passed out of the Senate Banking Committee, which is my committee, ....

    ON youtube here

    Parent

    Not really. (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:25:34 PM EST
    Of course, nowhere in the quoted material does he make any such claim -- only that he's spoken out against predatory lending for several years and worked to enact legislation to prevent it.

    You're conflating statements on different subjects from different paragraphs.

    Parent

    "I was the first candidate to get out there (5.00 / 0) (#19)
    by MarkL on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:29:29 PM EST
    and say this was wrong.." refers to what then?

    Parent
    The Jena 6. (5.00 / 0) (#24)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:30:26 PM EST
    Exactly as it reads in the quoted material.

    Parent
    hey, this is a first! Obama did NOT (2.00 / 1) (#34)
    by MarkL on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:32:39 PM EST
    claim he was first on some issue.. lol.

    Parent
    When clear screwups by anti-Obama posters... (5.00 / 2) (#169)
    by Addison on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:40:29 PM EST
    ...are somehow fodder for yet more anti-Obama comments, I think it's safe to say the discourse has become unconstructive.

    Parent
    Jena 6. (none / 0) (#28)
    by Addison on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:30:49 PM EST


    Parent
    Obama finance chairwoman, Penny Pritzker (5.00 / 2) (#116)
    by gram cracker on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:09:03 PM EST
    was chairwoman of the board of a Chicago-area bank in 1993 when it adopted a subprime business strategy that regulators say ultimately led it to collapse in 2001.

    What position is she likely to hold in an Obama Presidency? Treasury Secretary, HUD Secretary?

    How many people in Obama's IL State Senate district were affected by Superior's sleazy subprime lending practices and/or lost money when the bank collapsed?

    This is not the Pretty Penny that BO knows!!!

    Parent

    Where did he say that... (none / 0) (#4)
    by Addison on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:24:38 PM EST
    ...he was the first to speak out on predatory lending?

    Parent
    Maybe when he got his loan from (3.50 / 2) (#10)
    by PssttCmere08 on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:26:23 PM EST
    Countrywide :)

    Parent
    hmmmm... (none / 0) (#11)
    by squeaky on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:26:42 PM EST
    Wonder if they are McSame plants...

    They would loooove to marginalize Obama as the black candidate, who will look after his own as a number one priority, the rest of America be damned.

    or (5.00 / 0) (#30)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:31:38 PM EST
    how about they are Obama plants who want folks like you to suspect they are McCain plants.
    this could be complicated.

    Parent
    Good ness Gracious (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by MKS on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:41:22 PM EST
    Conspiracy theories do abound.

    Parent
    Personally (none / 0) (#52)
    by Nadai on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:42:52 PM EST
    I suspect they're members of the Knights Templar.  And possibly Freemasons to boot.

    Parent
    or course (5.00 / 3) (#67)
    by Capt Howdy on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:46:19 PM EST
    its completely beyond the realm of possibility that they could be black people you agree with Jesse Jackson.

    Parent
    This can only help him, not hurt, at this point (none / 0) (#40)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:39:30 PM EST


    In Florida? (5.00 / 0) (#46)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:41:28 PM EST
    He's got enough trouble there already.  I don't know if this incident helps him at all.

    Parent
    Sure (5.00 / 0) (#97)
    by Dr Molly on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:57:24 PM EST
    He was heckled by some black folks who are dissatisfied with him for not speaking out more strongly on behalf of the black community. Won't hurt him with the black vote - he will get almost 100% of it. Won't hurt him with the white vote either.

    Parent
    No, for those already (5.00 / 0) (#104)
    by pie on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 03:02:48 PM EST
    committed.  

    Parent
    Also interesting to note. . . (none / 0) (#50)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:42:22 PM EST
    the speech was in Florida which he's obviously contesting.

    I think BTD is simply wrong about Florida (5.00 / 1) (#59)
    by andgarden on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:45:18 PM EST
    and apparently so does Obama.

    Parent
    I tried to place a bet. . . (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by LarryInNYC on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 02:47:18 PM EST
    with him on Florida, but he changed the subject.

    Parent
    be more specific (none / 0) (#207)
    by inkybod on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 06:04:31 PM EST
    i just don't get it.  how is obama arrogant?  because he's popular?  because he smiles?  because he's confident?  because he sees a brighter future and wants to make you jazzed about it?  how jaded is everyone? (the faux pres seal was over the top, but it was a failed marketing ploy that was nixed quickly.)  bill clinton acted/acts like he's on top of the world too.

    look at the above comments and see how many are critical of obama, not for any specific stance on anything of substance, but because he's been successful.  what's more important, the issues, or your hurt pride?

    mccain is trying to rub salt in the wounds by portraying obama as popular.  he's trying to distract you from the issues into voting on emotion and disappointment.  and you're falling for it, hook, line and sinker.

    vote mccain if you want a conservative supreme court (overturning roe v. wade), a war with bomb bomb iran, and a ruined environment.

    no trouble here (none / 0) (#209)
    by diogenes on Fri Aug 01, 2008 at 10:23:48 PM EST
    If black people are heckling Obama, that raises his credibility with white people.  Let a few extremely angry blacks heckle him everywhere.  Obama can thus be distanced from the "angry black" extreme nicely.

    Obama Heckled at Speech in Florida | 195 comments (195 topical)