home

A Feel Better Story

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Media
Posted on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:26:12 PM EST
Tags: (all tags)
Share This: Digg! StumbleUpon del.icio.us reddit reddit

I am no Roger Simon fan. In fact, I am a Roger Simon critic. But I think this article was excellent. And as someone who has to eat crow on absolutely underestimating David Axelrod, it also made me feel good about the Obama campaign team and their skills. Here is a snippet:

“After we lost the New Hampshire primary,” Axelrod says, “the next day, on about three hours of sleep, [Obama] said, ‘I think what happened yesterday was right. When you are the new guy, it is not supposed to be easy. It was like Icarus flying too close to the sun. We have to earn this. But it persuaded me this is the right battle.’”

Good on Obama. Good on Axelrod. And good on Simon for this very good article.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

< Hillary on Sexism and the Race Going Forward | Sen. Kennedy Has Malignant Brain Tumor >

  • The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news

  • Contribute To TalkLeft


    • Display: Sort:
    A Feel Better Story | 192 comments (192 topical)

    Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment

    Really? (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by andgarden on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:27:58 PM EST
    It was like Icarus flying too close to the sun.
    Strikes me as something that Obama really oughtn't say about himself. Oh well.

    bad analogy all the way around (5.00 / 5) (#5)
    by Turkana on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:29:52 PM EST
    obama's a scholar of constitutional law, but apparently not the classics...

    Parent
    At the very least (5.00 / 9) (#9)
    by andgarden on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:31:16 PM EST
    it tends to reinforce the idea that he has an inflated opinion of himself. It sounds almost delusional.

    That it's a cruddy analogy is almost secondary.

    Parent

    I disagree (5.00 / 4) (#59)
    by Upstart Crow on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:57:07 PM EST
    I say it's fiction, concocted very recently to counter charges of arrogance and overconfidence.

    Parent
    And to Counter the Idea (5.00 / 1) (#69)
    by BDB on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:02:27 PM EST
    that Obama is tired or put-out by the long race.  We always expected this.  Yeah, right.

    Parent
    Like the Aztecs.... (5.00 / 2) (#125)
    by NO2WONDERBOY on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:25:12 PM EST
    whose real story is not known still today, but who began making it ever so impressive as they went along their path to conquer Meso-America, Obama is fabricating his own and disseminating it through the mouths and pens of surrogates, both voluntary and bought.
    We're still in the dark about this man's being everything,and anything to every body, but when we find out in the end, being nobody to any body, it may be too late!

    Parent
    For one thing... (5.00 / 1) (#160)
    by Upstart Crow on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:42:07 PM EST
    If he really had this light-bulb moment, surely he would have turned a new leaf after New Hampshire.

    Instead, we've seen a lot of cockiness and arrogance.  The same as before.

    Since that's the case, I don't see the point in announcing his light-bulb moment some time ago.  It just called into question why he didn't turn into a different kind of candidate.

    Parent

    I don't get this (5.00 / 1) (#75)
    by flyerhawk on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:03:51 PM EST
    the analogy as commonly accepted is one of arrogance being the downfall of Icarus, which covers most Greek tragedies.

    Obama is saying that he assumed that NH would be a win and he paid the price for it.

    How is that an example of arrogance?

    Delusional?  Do you think that Obama thinks he is actually Icarus?

    Parent

    IF Obama came out (5.00 / 2) (#93)
    by bjorn on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:11:18 PM EST
    and said, gee I was arrogant and did not realize how hard I would have to work, that would be one thing...it is really what he did after NH that is the rub for me.  He is not any less arrogant today than he was before or right after NH.  

    Parent
    BTD, you really believe (5.00 / 4) (#108)
    by madamab on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:18:34 PM EST
    this story is true?

    LOL.

    It's about as true as Giuliani turning to Kerik after 9/11 and saying, "Thank God George Bush is our President."

    It never happened, and neither did this.

    Parent

    And Again Doesn't Hold Himself Accountable (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:23:16 PM EST
    for any damn thing he does...that is the height of arrogance.  Once again he sounds like gwb..."this is hard work".  DUH!!

    Parent
    The problem is that he's comparing himself (5.00 / 2) (#141)
    by andgarden on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:38:13 PM EST
    to Greek Mythology.

    Parent
    Why? (5.00 / 0) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:32:19 PM EST
    I actually do not follow what you folks are objecting to here.

    Parent
    It's a plant (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:34:51 PM EST
    another story to make him seem humble and brilliant.  I just don't buy the narrative.  

    Parent
    No (5.00 / 5) (#21)
    by andgarden on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:36:12 PM EST
    It does not make him seem humble at all. That is the problem.

    Parent
    Deluded, not humble. (5.00 / 4) (#26)
    by oculus on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:41:50 PM EST
    Check out the third picture down:

    ICARUS

    Parent

    Love that picture (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:09:45 PM EST
    Axelrode giving the shove.

    Parent
    I thought it was Obama's (5.00 / 1) (#112)
    by oculus on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:19:38 PM EST
    Congressional backers doing the pushing.

    Parent
    Sort of a fill in the blank. (none / 0) (#116)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:20:53 PM EST


    Parent
    Crash and Burn.... (none / 0) (#122)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:24:32 PM EST


    Parent
    Did Someone say ICARUS? (none / 0) (#154)
    by Get 27 on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:29:47 PM EST
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkyAfXVpVrM

    Parent
    But I think Stellaa (5.00 / 5) (#32)
    by MMW on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:45:16 PM EST
    is right. It is SUPPOSED to make him seem humble. They are just so dang elitist, they couldn't even grasp a truely humbling analogy.

    Parent
    Sorry, Stellaaa, not Stellaa (none / 0) (#41)
    by MMW on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:50:40 PM EST
    I should know this too - considering I hear Streetcar everytime I see one of your posts.

    Parent
    No problem (none / 0) (#48)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:52:39 PM EST
    What's an "a" between comrades.  

    Parent
    Thanks for understanding. (5.00 / 1) (#54)
    by MMW on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:55:11 PM EST


    Parent
    I don't get how it makes him seem (none / 0) (#61)
    by bjorn on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:57:44 PM EST
    humble?

    Parent
    Roger Simon Giving obama One More Ride (5.00 / 7) (#23)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:39:29 PM EST
    on the Free Pass Express.  obama has been the new
    kid in every one of his races, but always found an easy way to slide into office.  This is the first time he has actually had to work for something.  This rings as hollow as michelle's glowing comments about Hillary.

    Parent
    icarus was a young man (5.00 / 3) (#22)
    by Turkana on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:39:24 PM EST
    who was fleeing imprisonment, with his father. he got drunk on the feeling of flight, and fell to his doom. the analogy of fleeing is backwards. the analogy of a young, immature man, essentially unthinkingly following his father, is probably not the best image for obama to be projecting.

    Parent
    He sort of pissed the Gods (5.00 / 5) (#27)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:42:13 PM EST
    off and they with the help of the sun melted the wax on his wings.  As he was flying he was taunting the gods.  

    Parent
    Remember the end of the story? (5.00 / 4) (#37)
    by cmugirl on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:48:36 PM EST
    Icarus' arrogance was the cause of his failure and ultimate fall to his death.

    Maybe Obama is slowly falling to his political death because of his arrogance.

    Parent

    taunting the gods, indeed (5.00 / 2) (#39)
    by Kathy on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:48:46 PM EST
    Won't be the sun this time, but the moon...

    Blue moon of Kentucky won't you keep on shining!

    Parent

    Um (none / 0) (#38)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:48:40 PM EST
    Now you are patronizing me.

    I of course know about the Icarus myth.

    What I was asking about was your reaction. you act as if the Icarus metaphor has never been used before.

    Parent

    it is a really, really bad metaphor (5.00 / 3) (#44)
    by Kathy on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:51:02 PM EST
    for Obama to use.  Right up there with saying Narcissus fell into the water.  It shows the artifice behind the statement.  They are trying to appear humble without actually humbling themselves.

    Parent
    that he was a foolish young man (5.00 / 6) (#49)
    by Turkana on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:53:23 PM EST
    completely unaccomplished and merely following his father, destroyed by his own impetuous immaturity...

    not the best image, for obama.

    Parent

    Obama's point seemed obvious to me (none / 0) (#86)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:08:40 PM EST
    HE needed the test of a tough campaign to be ready to fly close to the sun - the nomination.

    He is actually saying Hillary Clinton has been a great HELP to him.

    I just completely disagree with your interpretation on this.

    Parent

    Again, (5.00 / 1) (#109)
    by andgarden on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:18:50 PM EST
    the problem isn't what he meant. The problem is that he's comparing his situation to Greek mythology. Hillary/Obama, Rocky/Icharus, Beer track/wine track.

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 2) (#134)
    by chrisvee on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:31:01 PM EST
    I wonder if this reflects how he actually thinks or if they deliberately crafted this story for Simon's benefit?  I can't believe they didn't use a pop culture reference.  Heck, I can be obnoxiously snobby at times but even I don't think of myself in terms of Greek myth.

    Parent
    Those schools in Indonesia and (none / 0) (#138)
    by oculus on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:35:14 PM EST
    Hawaii were pretty darn good.  

    Parent
    A Book! (none / 0) (#137)
    by DJ on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:35:11 PM EST
    He should write a book about the NH campaign.

    Parent
    No patronizing intended (none / 0) (#91)
    by cmugirl on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:10:01 PM EST
    I know YOU know the myth - I was wondering if Axelrod had read the end of the story.

    Sorry if it came off that way.

    Parent

    Superficially, the Icarus story (none / 0) (#96)
    by befuddled on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:11:51 PM EST
    looks like the brave young son setting off to help his father, but inexperience overcomes him. Poor, unready son. Looking at the Wiki, though, I had another vision of a powerful, calculating person sacrificing a dupe for his own good. Poor, stupid son.

    The author meant well, I believe, but missed the mark. Either way, it isn't a good image for Obama, nor is the conventional interpretation that the gods were not amused by the temerity of the two and killed Icarus, thus also killing Daedelus because his inheritance was cut off. It leaves me wanting to know, who is the analogy to Daedelus in the Obama/Icarus allegory?

    Parent

    First of all (5.00 / 2) (#50)
    by rnibs on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:54:00 PM EST
    it wasn't the right battle.  And secondly, it seems to imply nobility, or something, but it is the ignobility of his campaign that makes it not the right battle.  One fights the right battle with honor, and he has not.  

    Parent
    I will tell you what I find disconcerting (5.00 / 3) (#128)
    by Florida Resident on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:25:28 PM EST
    in the post.  Is when you say
    Good on Obama. Good on Axelrod. And good on Simon for this very good article.

    If my memory serves me right it was after NH that the Obama's campaign of misogynic attacks and race baiting really started to get down and dirty.  Remember SC and the way the started saying the Clintons were racist?

    Parent

    Florida Resident, agreed. (none / 0) (#166)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:57:51 PM EST
    It appears that what Axelrod really learned after the NH loss was that they'd have to play the race card to insure Clinton got no AA support in the subsequent SC primary (and beyond).

    That strategy could have worked well if they'd stuck to calling Hillary, Bill and Ferraro racists. It began to backfire, big-time, when they started calling millions of VOTERS racist.


    Parent

    Answer (3.00 / 1) (#80)
    by buhdydharma on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:05:14 PM EST
    Anything reasonable or vaguely positive about Obama

    Parent
    Ha. (none / 0) (#97)
    by oculus on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:11:55 PM EST


    Parent
    BTD (none / 0) (#179)
    by CanadianDem on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:29:45 PM EST
    you've lost control ;)

    Parent
    The apt analogy (5.00 / 4) (#14)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:34:02 PM EST
    would be Odysseus.  Clever, fought all the battles, but makes it home.  So much for an Ivy League education.  

    Parent
    except that michelle (5.00 / 3) (#25)
    by Turkana on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:41:16 PM EST
    wouldn't have suffered the attentions of the suitors. she'd have kicked their asses out of the palace long before her hero got home.

    Parent
    heh (5.00 / 3) (#28)
    by andgarden on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:43:10 PM EST


    Parent
    Aha...but this is (5.00 / 4) (#34)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:46:08 PM EST
    the mistake, Penelope, was very clever.  She kept weaving so that she can retain the power while Odysseus was out of town.  Throwing them out would have resulted in loss of her power.  See, Michelle would have done the wrong thing.  

    Parent
    penelope wasn't strong enough (5.00 / 1) (#56)
    by Turkana on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:55:28 PM EST
    to deal with the problem directly. and she wasted all the palace wealth, letting the suitors run rampant. michelle would be tougher, smarter, and more fiscally responsible!

    Parent
    Don't think so (5.00 / 3) (#64)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:59:09 PM EST
    cause the rules of the time.  She played them.  By the standards of the time she had to wed, and she stalled them with cleverness matching that of Odysseus.  Otherwise she would have lost the throne, her power and her sons inheritance to the throne.  Not that simple.  The style you prescribe would have been wrong especially for Telemachus.  

    Parent
    And we constantly hear Obama (5.00 / 3) (#67)
    by oculus on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:01:20 PM EST
    has the support of the creative class.  Not true.  Just read these comments.

    Parent
    and the other lesson is: (5.00 / 4) (#70)
    by Kathy on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:02:37 PM EST
    Don't get into a "do you know your gods" discussion with Stellaaa.

    Parent
    Exactemente. (5.00 / 1) (#77)
    by oculus on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:04:22 PM EST


    Parent
    Penelope (5.00 / 4) (#82)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:06:29 PM EST
    was always one of my heroines.  Her nobility reminds me of Hillary.  
    Everyone gave Odysseus the props, yet Penelope preserved the throne, the kingdom and her son's rights.  Fortitude.  I wanted to name my daughter Penelope, but found another great Greek name.

    Parent
    Dorothy Parker (none / 0) (#131)
    by kayla on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:28:59 PM EST
    wrote a good poem about Penelope and how her strength rivals Odysseus's.

    Parent
    Kathy and Oculus (5.00 / 1) (#99)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:13:45 PM EST
    Keep me from saying what I am thinking about you know who and the illness.  I am sure you guys thought it, but don't want to be mean, rude, crass and nasty.  

    I repeat:  will not go into thread. will not go into thread.  

    Parent

    You are being nice; a good leader. (5.00 / 2) (#126)
    by oculus on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:25:18 PM EST


    Parent
    but the obamas (none / 0) (#78)
    by Turkana on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:04:26 PM EST
    are about change! she'd have changed the politics-as-usual of ithaka!

    Parent
    That is true! (5.00 / 1) (#84)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:07:29 PM EST


    Parent
    LOL!! (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by TomP on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:50:41 PM EST
    Good line, turkana.  I think it's Axelrod, though.

    Parent
    Exactly, why didn't he know (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by bjorn on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:30:50 PM EST
    before New Hampshire that he would have to fight for it?  Did he really believe he was just going to get the nomination after NH?  Even if he had won NH, I am not sure why he would be thinking it was already over.

    Parent
    If he had won NH (none / 0) (#11)
    by andgarden on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:31:50 PM EST
    it almost certainly would have been over.

    Parent
    You really think the momentum would have (none / 0) (#13)
    by bjorn on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:33:21 PM EST
    carried him through Super Tuesday?  I am not so sure he would have helped him change any outcomes on Super Tues, but what do I know?

    Parent
    Remember, (none / 0) (#17)
    by andrewwm on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:35:05 PM EST
    at the time there was talk of mass defections from the Clinton campaign and her having trouble holding it together. Likely a win in NH and the whole thing would have fallen apart.

    Everyone was assuming it would be like 2004 and if he won, it probably would have been.

    Parent

    Well, it's actually hard to game that out (none / 0) (#18)
    by andgarden on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:35:35 PM EST
    If everything continued thereafter as it otherwise has, it wouldn't have mattered. But who knows?

    Parent
    I saw an article recently speculating (none / 0) (#33)
    by oculus on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:45:56 PM EST
    how Clinton would have fared if she had "written off" Iowa before the caucuses, so as not to lose there.  

    Parent
    It says something, don't it? (none / 0) (#165)
    by Upstart Crow on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:53:42 PM EST
    About his attitudes in life. He didn't know he was going to have to work hard for the presidency.  Thought it would be handed to him.

    Do you realize his presidency of the Harvard Review was distinguished by the fact that he was the ONLY president not to write something for the review?

    A pattern is emerging here...

    Everyone keeps associating him with youth, and needing experience.  But he's 46 year's old -- hardly "young," in terms of character.  What you see is what you get.

    Parent

    Upstart Crow, I also don't know (none / 0) (#169)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:08:31 PM EST
    any 46 year olds who are quite as "young" as Obama.

    Obama has a very short remaining shelf life before his 'youth' and 'freshness' expires. i.e. if he waited till the end of his second term in the Senate, not only would he be old (50), he'd have 4 more years of legislative experience that could be used for, or against, him.

    Parent

    Especially since Icarus dies after his (5.00 / 1) (#19)
    by ahazydelirium on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:35:50 PM EST
    wings melt.

    Parent
    Comparing himself to the gods (5.00 / 3) (#57)
    by ruffian on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:56:20 PM EST
    even fallen ones, is a stretch IMHO.

    Parent
    Exactly (5.00 / 2) (#101)
    by andgarden on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:15:11 PM EST
    That was my only point. It is especially a problem for Obama, who already comes off as aloof. He does not now need to start sounding like a professor. (I think Jeralyn has already said that he does).

    Parent
    Hillary gets it (5.00 / 5) (#107)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:18:31 PM EST
    she compared herself to Rocky.  

    Parent
    You get it (5.00 / 1) (#115)
    by andgarden on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:20:41 PM EST
    I made that point above.

    Parent
    Sorry...not reading fast enough. (none / 0) (#119)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:21:49 PM EST


    Parent
    And not because (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by ruffian on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:34:39 PM EST
    she doesn't know her classics.  

    Parent
    she does ? (none / 0) (#152)
    by cleek on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:27:41 PM EST
    Rocky lost his big underdog fight, to Apollo Creed, in a split decision.

    sounds like Clinton doesn't know her modern classics.

    Parent

    which one do you think the avg (none / 0) (#164)
    by bjorn on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:49:35 PM EST
    Joe relates to Rocky or Icarus?

    Parent
    avg Joe (none / 0) (#193)
    by cleek on Thu May 22, 2008 at 08:44:54 AM EST
    knows Rocky lost

    Parent
    A small "p" professor. (none / 0) (#129)
    by oculus on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:26:29 PM EST


    Parent
    Icarus wasn't a god, he was (none / 0) (#171)
    by FlaDemFem on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:14:21 PM EST
    a mortal with fatal hubris. He challenged the gods and lost. Heh.

    Parent
    Hm (5.00 / 1) (#87)
    by chrisvee on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:08:47 PM EST
    The interesting thing is that in addition to perhaps the original Greek meaning as a cautionary tale re: arrogance, Latin and Renaissance poets often used Icarus as a symbol of heroic audacity and artistic creativity.

    Audacity and creativity.  Life is weird.

    Parent

    I mean honestly (5.00 / 10) (#114)
    by ruffian on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:20:36 PM EST
    How many of you, when faced with a setback, get a few hours sleep and then compare yourself to a Greek god?

    If that is not the very definition of elitism, I don't know what is.

    Parent

    Ding, Ding, Ding! (5.00 / 3) (#117)
    by andgarden on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:21:17 PM EST


    Parent
    Ha - we are cross-posting with eachother (5.00 / 1) (#124)
    by ruffian on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:25:05 PM EST
    on this one.  I'd love to see Hillary come up with an ad based on this, but I'm afraid it is too obscure.

    You and stellaa mentioned Rocky - i was also trying to come up with some pop culture analogies that would relate better with the rank and file.  If Obama wants to start courting the working class, he better first learn their myths.

    Parent

    I think of Homer (5.00 / 3) (#120)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:23:01 PM EST
    Simpson that is.  

    Parent
    Awesome (none / 0) (#127)
    by ruffian on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:25:21 PM EST


    Parent
    How about Quagmire? (none / 0) (#139)
    by samanthasmom on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:35:47 PM EST
    Giggety,Giggety, Sweetie!

    Parent
    Icarus wasn't a god (5.00 / 1) (#149)
    by flyerhawk on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:18:59 PM EST
    I realize that you guys are looking for whatever you can find to smear Obama but can't you at least get the myth straight?

    He was ruined because he chose to defy the Gods, always a very bad idea in Greek mythology.  

    Parent

    Not elitism, hubris of the worst kind. nt/ (none / 0) (#172)
    by FlaDemFem on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:17:06 PM EST


    Parent
    It is pretty weird (none / 0) (#144)
    by kayla on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:45:01 PM EST
    I've heard of people comparing others to Icarus, I have never heard someone compare themselves to Icarus.

    Parent
    Icarus smears the Clintons as racist... (none / 0) (#177)
    by lambert on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:28:44 PM EST
    ... just in time for SC? It would seem so. Looks like Simon's leaving out some of the more interesting material in his mythologizing...

    Parent
    that just warms my heart so much (5.00 / 4) (#2)
    by MarkL on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:27:59 PM EST
    it makes me want to donate to McCain.

    Oh the humility (5.00 / 7) (#3)
    by Chisoxy on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:29:16 PM EST
    ..it burns

    Don't believe a word (5.00 / 8) (#4)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:29:37 PM EST
    See, Axelrod's machine creates these false narratives.  I for one will never believe anything they throw out, cause I get their tactics.  It's all about false idealized narratives.  

    So what? (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by Edgar08 on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:31:04 PM EST
    What's done is done?  Of course they think they are right.  No one ever would have suggested otherwise.

    Of course they figured they'd have to devise a new strategy after New Hampshire.

    I wonder what that was, I wonder if it impacted Obama's ability to win the General Election.

    I wonder if it divided the party.

    We know what strategy they (5.00 / 4) (#10)
    by MarkL on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:31:45 PM EST
    decided on at that point---something you can't mention here.

    Parent
    No (5.00 / 2) (#15)
    by Edgar08 on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:34:25 PM EST
    You can't.  And yes, we know that strategy, and we know this site will have a different mission soon.

    And I think it will fail, because I know that while Republicans DO prosper by a sort of systematic process of loyalty and denial, I know Democrats never do.


    Parent

    Yeah, couldn't possibly be he lost (5.00 / 1) (#20)
    by masslib on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:35:50 PM EST
    because women came out for their preferred candidate.  This story makes you feel good?

    I mean, this story is bs. (5.00 / 5) (#31)
    by masslib on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:44:51 PM EST
    I think the difference is obvious, women voters.  I think this notion(to use a word BO is so fond of) that Hillary had it easy because she was better known is just ridiculous.  She is the first woman to ever have a viable chance of becoming President.  It was never going to be easy.  Further, that was the first official primary ever won by a female candidate.  It was HER victory, not Obama's defeat.  How in the name of God is this a feel good story?

    Parent
    I agree, it's an interesting (5.00 / 0) (#24)
    by JoeA on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:40:05 PM EST
    article.

    The response in the comments is predictable.

    Well (none / 0) (#35)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:47:06 PM EST
    I am not so popular here anymore but everyone is entitled to their opinion.

    You hate my stuff on occasion too.

    that also is predictable.

    Parent

    Popularity is overrated (5.00 / 3) (#36)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:48:02 PM EST
    Take respect any day.  

    Parent
    Heh (5.00 / 1) (#40)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:49:37 PM EST
    You think you need to give me that advice?

    Parent
    No, just pointing out. (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:51:01 PM EST


    Parent
    Oh, you are popular enough; but wrong! (5.00 / 7) (#46)
    by oculus on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:51:35 PM EST


    Parent
    when did you stop being popular? (5.00 / 4) (#47)
    by Kathy on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:51:51 PM EST
    I didn't get the memo.

    Parent
    Popular Does Not Equal Total Agreement (5.00 / 2) (#94)
    by MO Blue on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:11:19 PM EST
    You are very popular but if we agreed with everything you wrote you would scoff at us just like you do those who repeat the every Obama talking point without critically examining it first.

    Parent
    C'mon (none / 0) (#167)
    by Upstart Crow on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:01:29 PM EST
    we love you, btd

    Parent
    ps (none / 0) (#176)
    by Upstart Crow on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:22:20 PM EST
    it's just so obvious that this one is pr spin, though

    Parent
    Well, you SHOULD be popular (none / 0) (#178)
    by lambert on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:29:44 PM EST
    You're supporting the wrong guy, but you still do great work.

    Parent
    "We have to earn this" (5.00 / 8) (#29)
    by hlr on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:43:58 PM EST
    and then he dispatched Jesse Jackson Jr.

    Exactly (5.00 / 2) (#60)
    by ruffian on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:57:37 PM EST


    Parent
    I think this is what is known as the ole okie doke (5.00 / 11) (#30)
    by Bob Boardman on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:44:01 PM EST
    And Roger Simon is all too ready to write the gospel.

    After New Hampshire Axelrod and Obama pull the race-baiter card from the deck and played it beautifully. That is the real story.

    Indeed, if Obama had won the New Hampshire primary we wouldn't have had all of this ugliness and I would probably be voting for Obama in the fall.

    I'm sorry (5.00 / 8) (#45)
    by Steve M on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:51:10 PM EST
    Look, I'll vote for the nominee no matter how difficult Obama's supporters may make it for me, but you can't tell the story of this primary without talking about Axelrod's racial politics.

    As a native Detroiter, I always find it particularly depressing when that sort of strategy gets rewarded.  In the long run it leaves us all in a much worse place.

    Agree (5.00 / 1) (#95)
    by chrisvee on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:11:42 PM EST
    As much as I might like the heart-warming tale of Obama's inspirational leadership of his team during times of trial & tribulation, I also remember the public outcomes.

    However, if he's better in private in adversity than he is in public, that's at least something positive.     I haven't liked his public demeanor during his recent losses or controversies. He seems short-tempered and tired.

    Parent

    So why do it SteveM? (5.00 / 1) (#162)
    by NO2WONDERBOY on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:43:36 PM EST
    They only CARE THAT YOU VOTE for him. There is no concern nor acknowledgement that you or any of us are voting for the DEMOCRATIC Candidate, not for O.

    They will get away with causing a schism in the party, boiling point antipathies between interest groups, dirty R word slanders, why go on? Those who choose to do this will in fact, sanction and condone all of their campaign ruses.

    Remember the saying: The end justifies the mean?


    Parent

    Heh (none / 0) (#168)
    by Steve M on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:04:22 PM EST
    I respect everyone's right to vote as they please.  But the conclusion I drew from the 2000 election and aftermath is that throwing an election to "send a message" simply does not work.  As for what would work, I have no idea, but I'm going to keep on being a sheep for the Democratic Party.

    Parent
    You're right SteveM, my apologies. (none / 0) (#174)
    by NO2WONDERBOY on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:19:16 PM EST


    Parent
    SteveM, I am curious, who ... (none / 0) (#180)
    by NO2WONDERBOY on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:31:34 PM EST
    was responsible for "throwing an election", and to whom was the "send a message" that "simply does not work." in 2000?

    Parent
    You should write that in stone (none / 0) (#185)
    by FlaDemFem on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:43:05 PM EST
    throwing an election to "send a message" simply does not work.
    and send it to the DNC. Right now. :)

    Parent
    His staff has been drama-free. (5.00 / 1) (#52)
    by lilburro on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:54:22 PM EST
    I will hold my applause until after they show some ability to go after the votes of the eastern white working class.

    I heard on Nightline (none / 0) (#66)
    by Kathy on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:59:19 PM EST
    that Obama is waiting to go after those voters until Clinton is out of the race.

    Uh...okay.

    Parent

    weird, if he has a strategy to get them (none / 0) (#74)
    by bjorn on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:03:34 PM EST
    start doing it, as in YESTERDAY!  What advantage is there to waiting?

    Parent
    And visit WV and KY then too. Right...... (none / 0) (#79)
    by LadyDiofCT on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:04:30 PM EST


    Parent
    Go After (none / 0) (#98)
    by chrisvee on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:12:38 PM EST
    Maybe he doesn't want to 'go after' them out of respect for Clinton.  Dunno. But clearly standing up against the sexism in this campaign would send a message.

    Parent
    That Was One Of obam's More Assinine (none / 0) (#135)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:34:38 PM EST
    statements.  Isn't he such a gentleman, not trying to take away Hillar's supporters/voters until she is out of the race....arrogance perhaps?
    And she isn't leaving until August; and after that, he may be on his way out.

    Parent
    Can we put (5.00 / 11) (#53)
    by TeresaInSnow2 on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:54:57 PM EST
    a "bring your barf bag" warning on this post.

    What a load of arrogant hooey.

    lol, :-) (5.00 / 1) (#68)
    by vicndabx on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:01:29 PM EST


    Parent
    Simon is a lackey (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by Raven15 on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:55:17 PM EST
    But he and Axe-man are sophisticated enough to know that there are many who feel Obama is being handed the nomination on a silver-platter. This is nothing but the development of a counternarrative, one of many to come, no doubt.

    I have (5.00 / 3) (#58)
    by Ga6thDem on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:56:44 PM EST
    to disagree with this. Considering what his surrogates went about screaming right after NH, it seems that what they define as fighting is not a winning strategy.

    Somehow ... (none / 0) (#118)
    by Inky on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:21:34 PM EST
    they managed to turn a whining strategy into a winning strategy. Go figure.

    Parent
    Feel better story? (5.00 / 2) (#63)
    by ruffian on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:59:06 PM EST
    Better than what? I appreciate your efforts BTD, but this isn't gonna cut it.

    And Then They Sent Jesse Jackson, Jr. (5.00 / 7) (#65)
    by BDB on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:59:10 PM EST
    onto national television to claim Hillary cried over remarks about her appearance and never cried for Katrina victims.  

    Wonder what was on Obama's note pad. (5.00 / 1) (#73)
    by oculus on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:03:06 PM EST


    Parent
    "I have to take (none / 0) (#130)
    by madamab on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:28:33 PM EST
    a bathroom break?"

    ;-)

    Parent

    Nah, it was-- (none / 0) (#151)
    by Kathy on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:25:49 PM EST
    "Mr Barack Clinton."

    scratch through...

    "Mr Barack Rodham Clinton."

    scratch through...

    "Mr Rodham Clinton"

    scratch through...

    "Mr Bill Obama Clinton"

    YES!

    Parent

    Exactly (5.00 / 2) (#85)
    by andrelee on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:08:00 PM EST
    ...we'll earn this by calling the Clintons racist before every election with lots of brothers and sisters...hahahaha, he said, 'earn'.

    Parent
    Hard Work (5.00 / 3) (#71)
    by LadyDiofCT on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:02:42 PM EST
    It seems like Obama just realized running for President is 'hard work' (oh no Bush redux).   I don't think he's ever wanted to work very hard for anything.  He has no real legislative or national political accomplishments that would make one consider, even less, elect him President.   Maybe Axelrod should be the candidate.  A bunch of phonies, in my book.

    tweety bird (5.00 / 1) (#72)
    by tedsim on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:03:06 PM EST
    On his show last night michele an A.A I can't remember her last name said there would be Race Riots in the streets if they take it way from him,Somethng he hasn't won yet.But i reject being threatend.I can't believe it!!!

    Bernard is her last name (none / 0) (#83)
    by bjorn on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:06:58 PM EST
    It was gross how Chris and another guest thought this was so funny. Did you see Tucker's face? He was disgusted by the comment.

    Parent
    That's been (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by janarchy on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:17:08 PM EST
    the threat for a while. Starting with Al Sharpton. "Give us what we want or there will be riots."

    Way to go in terms of keeping party unity and helping your candidate. As if the Republicans won't exploit that too?

    Parent

    Michele Bernard (none / 0) (#113)
    by bjorn on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:19:57 PM EST
    is a Republican, and I honestly don't know what her motivations are ... she seems to support Obama, but some of the things that come out of her mouth are unbelievable.

    Parent
    I can't figure her out either. (none / 0) (#191)
    by janarchy on Tue May 20, 2008 at 04:59:45 PM EST
    It just pains me to hear these constant threats from certain mouthpieces and/or pundits. It doesn't make any Obama supporters look good if they're willing to throw tantrums if they don't get their way.

    Not to mention eye-rolling on my part seeing how no one was willing to riot when the SCOTUS handed Bush his (p)residency or over the war. That wasn't important enough, but this is?

    Parent

    Tweety looked sorta dumbstruck to me. (none / 0) (#140)
    by Joan in VA on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:37:45 PM EST
    The laugh after was more a nervous distancing reaction. He looked like he didn't want to get in trouble over what she said.

    Parent
    She's a moron...with that plastic smile plastered (none / 0) (#143)
    by PssttCmere08 on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:41:12 PM EST
    on her face, shilling for obama.  Winging the ole okie doke at the audience.  They definitely need some new shills on msnbc....tired of the same moronic faces.

    Parent
    Everything is all about him (5.00 / 6) (#100)
    by ruffian on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:14:29 PM EST
    and his personal story.

    "After we lost the New Hampshire primary," Axelrod says, "the next day, on about three hours of sleep, [Obama] said, `I think what happened yesterday was right.

    Every loss can be fit into the myth somehow, and every win is the will of the gods. I know all politicans have egos, but you don't often see their advisor's bragging about it and pretending it is him being humble.  

    :" ... after 3 hours sleep" (5.00 / 1) (#110)
    by feet on earth on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:18:51 PM EST
    Oh poor Barak, instead of flying at night with is fake wings, he got is clock screwed up and flew into the sun.  Love the analogy: melt-down.  

    Should we pass the hat and get him a pair of chocolate wings in Denver with a card: chocolate too melt next to Hillary's sun"?  

    BTD, "feel better' - not so much. (5.00 / 1) (#153)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:28:58 PM EST
    The Icarus analogy is sophomoric, it's TONE DEAF and it sums up a lot of what's wrong about the Axelrod/Obama campaign. It would seem that they are both under the mistaken impression that there was something heroic about Icarus using his wax wings to, inadvertently, fly too close to the sun: i.e. the fellow's celestial aspirations caused him to strive beyond his limits - whatever.

    I doubt either Obama or Axelrod get the meaning that Icarus was a self-absorbed, idiot boy: who ignored the advice of his elders; who didn't notice he was over-reaching his limits; who bumbled too close to the sun because he was "overcome by the sublime feeling that flying gave him". If that's what Axelrod meant when he, and/or Obama, used the Icarus analogy they would have been right (imo).

    How could they not know that invoking Icarus is an overly fanciful notion? And, how could they not know that, insofar as Icarus has any relevance in popular culture, he is viewed as a tragic, fanciful, fool-hardy dreamer. Those qualities are not exactly Presidential.

    If Obama is the nominee, we'll be hearing a lot more about the unfitness of "Icarus" in the GE.

    we will be hearing a lot more about .... (5.00 / 1) (#159)
    by Monda on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:40:33 PM EST

    From Rev Wright:

    God raised Barack from a dead political career to the United States Senate. Then, as Jesus ascended into Heaven, God made a way for Barack to ascend to the pinnacle of politics. . . . We are truly in a "new day."

    Now I see where the Axe's "rising" analogy came from ;).

    Parent

    why (none / 0) (#161)
    by Monda on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:42:28 PM EST
    the link of the article doesn't show up?

    I'll try one more time:

    http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MjRhNDQ4MGFlYjk0YzUwNDk0MzYyNTE1ZDkwYmNmNDc=&w=Mg#more

    Parent

    Oh my! (5.00 / 2) (#157)
    by mm on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:37:30 PM EST
    They're already writing Chapter One of his 3rd autobiography.

    We have to earn this.

    Yeah, I bet he said that.  Right after they decided to chop President Clinton off at the knees and twist anything the Clinton's said as some sort of code for racists.  

    Whether true or not (5.00 / 1) (#175)
    by Alien Abductee on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:21:35 PM EST
    and despite all the classics scholars in this thread with their creative alternate interpretations, the obvious point of the comparison to Icarus is that if they hadn't lost NH (and all the rest of what they lost) they could easily have fallen into the disastrous mistake of thinking they were as smart as they looked when they were winning, and maybe blown the overall campaign out of arrogance - the central thematic point of Simon including that very interesting quote from Axelrod. It's a gracious giving of what's due to the Clinton campaign for "toughening him up," just as you all have been saying all along.

    Great article and post on it. Thanks.

    "Gracious giving"?! Gimme a break (none / 0) (#181)
    by lambert on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:33:23 PM EST
    Piss down my leg, tell me it's raining, and then insult me by calling that "gracious giving." Puh-leeze.

    Parent
    please excuse Lambert (none / 0) (#184)
    by CanadianDem on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:39:34 PM EST
    he seems to have escaped from Corrente, or is b/c there was a mutiny over there amongst the authors, or is that 10 comments aint cutting it for your screed?

    Parent
    No need to excuse anything (none / 0) (#187)
    by Alien Abductee on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:46:59 PM EST
    People should be able to say honestly what they think and feel and not be either ridiculed or censored for it.

    Parent
    yah, there is no excuse... (none / 0) (#189)
    by CanadianDem on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:56:21 PM EST
    http://www.sadlyno.com/archives/9492.html

    Parent
    Only you (none / 0) (#186)
    by Alien Abductee on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:44:31 PM EST
    can deal with your own angry feelings. Objectively, they're reaching out in this article to give the Clinton campaign and supporters their due. I expect more similar will follow. Do with it as you wish. I hope you can call your better nature into that, and think long term about what the party and the country faces in the fall.

    Parent
    If the idea that the guy who ran Obama's campaign (4.42 / 7) (#89)
    by cawaltz on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:09:39 PM EST
    took a surefire win for the Democrats and turned it into a very possible win for McCain makes you feel better BTD who am I to try to discourage you from feeling great bout that? Personally, I think the Obama campaign qualifies as disgusting and sleazy and that the tactics have succeeded in dividing the Democrats straight down the middle doesn't make me feel better. If I somehow manage to keep the vomit down in my throat and vote for Obama come November I'm pretty sure that after pulling the lever that I'll need a shower. Then again, I'm not much into getting down in the dirt and maybe I'll just sit this one out. Axelrod can execute his "winning" strategy without my low information, racist, hillbilly female self.

    Feel better for the rest of us-- (3.66 / 3) (#92)
    by Molly Pitcher on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:10:21 PM EST
    Hillary Rodham Clinton, you've got a friend in Dirty Harry.

    Though a longtime follower of John McCain -- dating back to the Arizona senator's 2000 run against George W. Bush in the GOP primary -- Clint Eastwood thinks Clinton deserves some serious respect. And enough already with the calls for her to quit.

    "Everybody's trying to talk her into folding, but it doesn't seem like the spirit of Americana," Eastwood told Politico before heading to France's Cannes Film Festival, where his period kidnapping drama "Changeling," starring Angelina Jolie, had its world premiere Tuesday.

    "Put yourself in the place of [Clinton]: You've gone out there and made a thousand speeches, and you've shaken a million hands and you've been out there working your ass off," Eastwood said. "And then somebody comes up and says, `Why don't you just drop out of it?'"

    The actor/director/producer/jazz aficionado -- who had his own brush with politics as mayor of Carmel, Calif. -- said Clinton's fortunes could change: Barack Obama could trip over himself again, as he did with the controversies over his association with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright and Obama's remarks about working-class voters clinging to their religion and guns.

    "I watch Clinton and feel kind of sorry for her and wonder, `What are all these people telling her to run away for?'" Eastwood said. "She's showing her strength by hanging in there."


    Heck ya... (5.00 / 0) (#104)
    by Stellaaa on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:17:03 PM EST
    tell kid Oakland, Clint is a real Oakland native.  Oakland Tech graduate.  

    Parent
    IMO, CEastwood's statements were ok, until..... (none / 0) (#188)
    by NO2WONDERBOY on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:52:18 PM EST
    the last paragraph: I watch Clinton and feel kind of sorry for her and wonder, . I know what he is saying, I don't think how he said it, was the right way. You know...those sound-bite hunters out there can twist and turn!

    Parent
    Such good Democrats... (3.00 / 2) (#76)
    by mrmobi on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:03:52 PM EST
    Big Tent, you are preaching to the wrong audience here.

    These folks:

    Indeed, if Obama had won the New Hampshire primary we wouldn't have had all of this ugliness and I would probably be voting for Obama in the fall.

    and

    that just warms my heart so much it makes me want to donate to McCain.

    appear to be Republicans in Democratic clothing.

    Among Obama supporters you don't ususally find that kind of "cut-off-my-nose-to-spite-my-face" attitude. I'll vote for Clinton over McCain if she's the nominee, no matter how the nomination is decided.

    So please, faux Democrats, do everyone a favor and get the hell out of the party you hate so much, ok? The other side hardly ever nominates people of color, so you should be very comfortable over there.

    Good bye and good luck.

    Heh (5.00 / 7) (#106)
    by Steve M on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:17:35 PM EST
    My grandfather who has voted for every Democrat since FDR despises Obama.

    Should I try to convince him to vote for Obama, do you think?  Or should I just lecture him on how he was never a real Democrat in the first place?

    Parent

    You don't need to lecture him (1.00 / 0) (#182)
    by Korha on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:35:58 PM EST
    But certainly your grandfather is not a real democrat anymore if he votes for McCain over Obama. The analogous situation here is all the democrats who crossed over to vote for Reagan. The Presidential election is the the highest-stakes election there is; you got to vote with your team, or you're not on the team. You're either on the other team or you're on the sidelines, and you ought to be big enough to admit that.  

    Parent
    Just What Obama Needs To Win In November (5.00 / 2) (#111)
    by MO Blue on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:18:58 PM EST
    More of his supporters screaming "Get Out Of The Party." Unfortunately, for Obama, many people are taking your advise. Hope he can find enough Republicans to replace everyone who will not vote for Obama.

    Parent
    How perceptive you are (5.00 / 2) (#123)
    by Raven15 on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:24:36 PM EST
    ...about TL people after your three posts. You must have a degree in psychology or be a psychic or something, wow.

     And you're so right, no "cut-off--my-nose" attitudes from Obama supporters--just "I am so superior to you stupid racists."

    Thank you for enlightening me. Any books to suggest I read to make me a better person?

    Parent

    it's pretty (none / 0) (#183)
    by CanadianDem on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:37:17 PM EST
    easy to gauge the temperature here...and his point is correct. I can't count how many times I've read the Dem party being disparaged or the numerous times I've read people say I'm an independent now to heck with the dems.  He's on point.  And as your so fond of saying do your research in past posts, it's all over the place.

    Parent
    This is exactly (5.00 / 2) (#132)
    by rnibs on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:30:12 PM EST
    the card he chose to play after NH.  You're telling us that if we don't vote for him, we're racist, and more importantly, he never once asked his supporters to stop calling Hillary supporters racist.  Though, maybe that's part of what he meant when he instructed y'all to be 'nice' to us now.  Why did he keep mum on it till now?  

    Parent
    Guess mrmobi didn't get the "nice" memo. (5.00 / 0) (#142)
    by Joan in VA on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:40:51 PM EST


    Parent
    Sad thing is (5.00 / 1) (#146)
    by ruffian on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:02:26 PM EST
    He did get the memo.  That is their version of being nice.

    Parent
    Wow! (5.00 / 2) (#133)
    by samanthasmom on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:30:32 PM EST
    Green and red in the same post.

    Parent
    I'll vote for Obama (3.66 / 3) (#81)
    by ruffian on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:05:52 PM EST
    Doesn't mean I have to think he is in the pantheon of the gods.

    Parent
    Check out the photo at the top (none / 0) (#103)
    by oculus on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:16:07 PM EST
    of Huff Post's front page.  The anointed one.

    Parent
    Somebody heard my prayer! (none / 0) (#148)
    by befuddled on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:12:43 PM EST
    The new bloggers did get a new script. This one is "If you don't vote for Obama you're a dirty Republican in disguise and this site is for Dems." I've seen it in several places already today. And, like so many things we've seen lately, it's designed to P.O. a certain segment that might be necessary in the G.E., namely disaffected Republicans.

    Parent
    What I love is the people who spew the (5.00 / 1) (#163)
    by Florida Resident on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:43:57 PM EST
    Republican talking points.  Can not stop criticizing the only two Democrats to win the presidency in the last 40 years.  Openly like Obama sit in awe and admiration of Reagan and consistently use the most misogynic and deplorable attacks on another Democrat have the (I choose not use the word in my mind) cojones to call us Republicans.

    Parent
    As a general rule (none / 0) (#150)
    by flyerhawk on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:20:08 PM EST
    when you openly state that you are voting for McCain  you pretty much AREN'T a Democrat.  

    Parent
    I'm an Arizonan and an independent (none / 0) (#170)
    by befuddled on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:10:04 PM EST
    I prefer Hillary, but I'd rather have McCain over Obama. And I'll leave my reasons as my own. The question here probably relates to whether party loyalty or personal preference is involved among individuals.
    This particular post is merely a comment on a sudden uptick in a new theme I've noticed, another guilt play as I suspect. Just my opinion.

    Parent
    Whether I'm a Democrat or not (none / 0) (#190)
    by Raven15 on Tue May 20, 2008 at 04:55:38 PM EST
    ...is not as important as the fact that I am definitely a democrat. Obama has not yet proved to me that he is either one, or even cares about the difference.

    Parent
    good democrats (3.00 / 2) (#102)
    by tedsim on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:15:35 PM EST
    We haven't left the democratic party the party has left us. From Florda,mainly Howard Dean

    A change from negativism? (none / 0) (#7)
    by Prabhata on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:30:51 PM EST
    It's been too negative for too long, right?

    I understand you have admiration for the (none / 0) (#51)
    by vicndabx on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:54:14 PM EST
    way Obama & Axelrod ran O's campaign.  I will grudgingly admit they did a good job controlling the narrative (thus far).  They also had a whole lotta help from the media - which isn't talked about at all in the article.  Personally, I think Alexrod sucks cuz he wasn't performing these sleights of hand for my candidate.  :-)

    I agree with the Axelrod's analysis (none / 0) (#62)
    by ajain on Tue May 20, 2008 at 12:58:18 PM EST
    I think Obama has really become a much stronger candidate.

    He is clearly very smart. Nonetheless I have doubts about the potential fight ahead. But, he is more capable than I thought so maybe he will prove me wrong again.

    This doesnt mean I like him, but I think he can do very well.

    ajain, there is nothing "smart" (5.00 / 2) (#158)
    by FoxholeAtheist on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:39:02 PM EST
    about comparing Obama to Icarus. Axelrod made the profoundly dumb Icarus analogy today; so I'd say neither he, nor Obama, appear to be any "smarter" now than they were six months ago.

    Pardon the pun, but this is a gaffe of mythic proportions.

    Parent

    Obama does have positive attributes (none / 0) (#88)
    by Exeter on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:09:10 PM EST
    His campaign's positive attitude and sense of can-do-itness does seem to come from the top.

    hmmm (none / 0) (#145)
    by Monda on Tue May 20, 2008 at 01:53:15 PM EST
    BTD, my husband is from Icaria (Greece) and the comparison is just not making him feel that good, lol. He said that while Greeks have (have had) no problem sharing their mythology with the world, metaphorically or otherwise, in this instant is a "little bit" far fetched.  
    And since this "story" was cooked up by Mr. Axelrod, how does  he see himself?  As Daedalus?  Icarus father was a genius,  however, with a devious mind, and among his deeds we can count the murder of his own nephew, just because the 12 year old kid showed to be as good, if not better than his uncle.

    Sometimes it would be nice for the peace of mind if we were low-information voters lol.            

    If, indeed, he learned from New Hampshire, that (none / 0) (#147)
    by zfran on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:09:24 PM EST
    "we had to earn this" where, as we stand today, has he learned??? Maybe the question should be "what has he learned." That's why it seems that this is a made-up story. Unless it's written down for him, I have not heard him speak extemporaniously (sp) using any phrasing such as this.

    Correction-It was Axelrod who (none / 0) (#155)
    by zfran on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:29:59 PM EST
    said "we had to earn this." Again, the voice of Obama..If this were a true re-enactment, we would have, should have, could have seen evidence of a better day after that one..we didn't and we haven't.

    I take it with a grain. (none / 0) (#156)
    by rghojai on Tue May 20, 2008 at 02:37:12 PM EST
    Putting aside the elitist question, what came after NH, etc., I have my skepticism when anyone's campaign manager relates something their candidate "said."

    What's 'Phonus Balonus' in Gk? Iphie + Ellie know (none / 0) (#173)
    by Ellie on Tue May 20, 2008 at 03:19:15 PM EST
    An exchange right here at Talk Left will lay it all out. I will NOT accuse Axelrod of poaching material from Talk Left. ;-)

    I've italicized Iphie and left myself up and down. Disputes may be taken before TL's own Athena, who is the usual arbiter of such things in mythology and might want to extend that skill here.

    [begin exchange]

         __

    Hubris (5.00 / 9) (#34)
    by Iphie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 11:41:21 AM EST

    Which in modern times has come to mean pride, but to the Ancient Greeks meant more than that -- it was the insolence and insult that was borne of pride. It was the hubris, not the pride that caused the resultant punishment by the gods. Obama is nothing if not insolent and insulting -- to Hillary, to her supporters, but especially to the democratic process.

    There's time -- Hillary will keep racking up wins, Obama will keep ignoring and insulting voters he doesn't think he needs. I think Obama is heading for a Greek tragedy type fall -- we should all hope that it happens now and not in November.

    In terms of AG, does he have a strong enough core set of principles? His opinions and stands on so many issues seem to be completely malleable -- I think we need someone who we know will clean up the DOJ, not someone who is still a big question mark.

         _

    Obama = Icarus? (5.00 / 2) (#132)
    by Ellie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 01:07:07 PM EST

    You can only fly so long and so high on wings of wax, even with all the winds of pundistan powering the flight.

    What's the Greek word for PHWEEEeeeeee-Splash! again?

         __

    LOL (none / 0) (#208)
    by Iphie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 03:51:28 PM EST

    O/T, I know, but have you ever read Geek Love? Iphie and Ellie were the names of the Siamese Twins (short for Iphigenia and Electra, speaking of Greek mythology.)

    SHUT! UP! Now I have to order it. (5.00 / 1) (#215)
    by Ellie on Sun May 11, 2008 at 04:09:30 PM EST

    One of my (actual and free range) sisters recommended it but my free reading time has been whittled down since I host her kids for a weekend a month while her ... reading time ... has ... gone ... up ...
    Hmmm. Starting to see the flaw in that deal. :-)

    -------------------
    [end exchange]

    A Feel Better Story | 192 comments (192 topical)

    Readers Must Login or Create an Account to Comment