Florida v. Oklahoma

By Big Tent Democrat, Section Off Topic
Posted on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 07:47:37 PM EST
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It's official - Florida v. Oklahoma for the college football national championship. I am happy for the Gators but I still hate the system. There is no reason - none - that there is not a college football playoff.

Do I think Florida and Oklahoma are the best two teams? Yes, I do. But who cares what I think or you think or the polls think or the computers think? (BTW, when people tell you 5 of 6 polls preferred Texas over Florida - they are not telling you the truth - the imposed BCS computer system - that ignores margin of victory - had Texas ahead - but the true computer systems have Florida as the best team - see Jeff Sagarin on this.)

A playoff is the only way to really crown a champion. 8 teams - Florida, Oklahoma, Texas, USC, Penn State, Virginia Tech, Cincinnati and Utah. They are playing in the 4 big bowls (Alabama and Ohio State are the other 2 teams in the BCS.) All we need is 3 more games - 2 semis - then a TRUE championship game.

In any event, Go Gators!! Speaking for me only

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Florida v. Oklahoma | 70 comments (70 topical)

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Football (5.00 / 1) (#43)
by Plutonium Page on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 09:10:05 PM EST

Is that the one with the funny elongated sorta ball?

:-P

Yeah (none / 0) (#46)
by TheRealFrank on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 09:29:33 PM EST

It's the one where the object of play isn't really a ball, and where, in normal play, you don't touch it with your feet. Whereas the game where the ball is a ball, and you're supposed to touch it with your feet, is called "soccer".

Silly Americans.. it should have been called, I dunno.. American Rugby?

American Football seems to be a very American sport. They actually started up a European league, but it wasn't much of a success. I remember the Amsterdam team using the Arena (home stadium of the Ajax soccer team), and hardly drawing any people.

I wonder why it didn't become popular. Maybe for the same reasons that soccer will never make it big in the US. It's a cultural thing, and "new" games have a low chance of becoming popular.


Although, with the fast growing (none / 0) (#47)
by oculus on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 09:37:06 PM EST

Lation population, at least in California, predictions are soccer will be the most popular sport.


Lots of regulate white kids (none / 0) (#48)
by andgarden on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 09:39:49 PM EST

play soccer. Nobody watches it on TV, though.


: Nobody? I don't, but the (none / 0) (#49)
by oculus on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 09:44:03 PM EST

Latino male 5th grader I tutor doesn't miss it.

Um, it's the one (none / 0) (#69)
by TeresaInSnow2 on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:37:47 AM EST

where if you go to work for the Seattle Seahawks, you develop holes in your hands and a mysterious obsessive need to miss targets, unless said targets are the other team's numbers.


The National (5.00 / 2) (#45)
by jb64 on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 09:28:51 PM EST

championship was played yesterday. This silly crystal football bowl will have to be played out, but Oklahoma will be lucky to keep it within 11.

congrats BTD. I want a playoff but I have (none / 0) (#1)
by Teresa on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:10:37 PM EST

a problem with any system that allows Cincy and Utah and Virginia Tech to have a chance and not Alabama. I don't like Alabama but that's just not fair.

Maybe they could use the top eight teams from the rankings and forget conference automatics?

I just watched the video of Tebow after (none / 0) (#3)
by oculus on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:13:23 PM EST

Mississippi beat Gators. Guess that settles a iingering question in my mind: might he bolt to NFL next season?


No clue but I doubt it He seems to love (none / 0) (#4)
by Teresa on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:15:10 PM EST

where he is. I'd bet he'd play eight years at Florida if the rules allowed. At least I haven't read anything about him leaving early.


Tebow is on ESPN talking about his (none / 0) (#5)
by oculus on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:16:36 PM EST

band of brothers.


I think he should be a motivational (none / 0) (#6)
by Teresa on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:17:23 PM EST

speaker when he is through with football. :)


Politician. (none / 0) (#7)
by oculus on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:18:28 PM EST

Oh yeah. I'll bet he's a nasty Republican. (none / 0) (#10)
by Teresa on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:19:56 PM EST

(Like the Mannings)


A Republican (none / 0) (#14)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:22:59 PM EST

almost certainly. Nasty? Not sure.


I don't think he or Peyton could ever be nasty. (none / 0) (#21)
by Teresa on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:28:35 PM EST

I was just being mean. Maybe he will shock us and be a Democrat. I know "real" Democrats hate Heath Shuler but if you only knew how much pleasure I got when he ran and all the right wingers here nearly croaked. It was so worth it to me even if he is conservative Democrat.


Maybe (5.00 / 2) (#24)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:30:25 PM EST

I think Tebow's hard core religious which means anti-choice.

I think that trumps it.

But he does good works. So he is also a socially left religious type too.


: Has he sd. anything about Palin? (none / 0) (#39)
by oculus on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:39:19 PM EST

: Baptist. Guess you are correct. (none / 0) (#42)
by oculus on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 09:04:15 PM EST

David and Goliath

Eli (and his dad) were (none / 0) (#22)
by oculus on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:29:43 PM EST

pretty pissy to the Chargers.


He should (none / 0) (#25)
by jimakaPPJ on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:31:19 PM EST

Alabama had their chance (none / 0) (#13)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:22:16 PM EST

They lost a playoff game in Atlanta.


And they don't deserve another one but VT (none / 0) (#17)
by Teresa on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:25:43 PM EST

does? After all, they lost to the best team in the country. I really want a playoff but not the conference tie-ins when there is so much difference between conferences at times.

And, by saying that, Oklahoma lost to Texas so should they have lost their chance? I realize they won the Big 12, but still...I think the top eight in the standings should go.


: They won their conference (none / 0) (#20)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:27:48 PM EST

No playoff system (none / 0) (#50)
by cal1942 on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 09:45:06 PM EST

would possibly be "fair." None I've heard about.

If an eight team or whatever tournament were created there would be furious debate about this team getting shafted or that team getting shafted and conference tie-ins might just provoke even more outrage.

No advocate of a playoff system has said anything about what happens to a school's followers in a multi-game scenario. How many people can stand the enormous expense of attending the extra games? Is it really college football without the fans of each team in attendance? Would road shows sell out in the venues selected? If, as some advocates suggest, the games were played on campus; I have to ask how Florida would feel about playing Penn State in Happy Valley in December.

I have yet to hear ANY playoff scheme that wouldn't trigger massive discontent.

Stop trying to turn a great regional game into a national game.

By the way, did anyone hear about the poll among actual players about a playoff system. The majority said no. Only the SEC players polled a majority favoring a playoff.


Simple. Have all the games in (none / 0) (#52)
by oculus on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 09:48:03 PM EST

warm venues.

But, I ask you, given the lousy W/L records of some of the schools going to bowl games, why isn't Michigan going to a bowl?


: Because (none / 0) (#59)
by cal1942 on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 10:18:59 PM EST

they were 3-9.
Six wins are required for bowl eligibility.
Six win Notre Dame will play in the Hawaii Bowl.

: I've (none / 0) (#62)
by cal1942 on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 01:05:35 AM EST

heard, among the many "brilliant" plans for a playoff that the teams be seeded and the higher seeded teams would play the first round at home.
Others have suggested neutral sites which I would guess would be in warm climates.
The neutral site schemes as well as the home game schemes have serious problems.
If Syracuse played Ohio State in one of the rounds in Tucson who would attend the game?
Would a huge contingent of Syracuse and Ohio State followers make the trip to Tucson? Maybe. But certainly not enough to fill U of Arizona's stadium. Filling the place would require that the game be a strong local draw. Would that happen (this year's ACC championship game between Boston College and Virginia Tech was played in Tampa. Nice day, many, many empty seats. The game had no local appeal and that was in Florida, a state loaded with expatriates from the north)?
What would happen with the winning school's followers if their team won and advanced to the next round? Would they troop on to the next site? Ever made a long trip to a bowl game? Know how much it costs? Would fans hold back on the first round anticipating attendance in round two?
My point is that the playoff games could very well become nothing more than boutique games, lightly attended, completely lacking the color and pagentry of a college football game.
If the playoff games are played at bowl sites then what happens to the other bowls? How would those games be regarded?
Today college coaches are fired on a regular basis if they have a bad season or two at schools with even moderate expectations. Imagine the carnage if coach Big Time went for 3 or 4 seasons without making the playoffs? How many millions will some well heeled schools pay for a coach that they think will get them to the playoffs?
Offer a scenario like this to the people who actually pay for tickets and attend games and ask them what they think.
People who make statements like this:

There is no reason - none - that there is not a college football playoff.
Haven't given this matter any thought whatsoever.

Exactly (none / 0) (#56)
by Trickster on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 09:59:11 PM EST

You'll still have injustices if you base it on conference championships. Conference championships are local affairs played under local rules and should not be determinative of national championships.

If you feel you REALLY MUST allow conference champs to get automatic berths, the only way to go is with 16 teams. Then you can still have at least 3-4 at-large spots. Otherwise, teams are still going to get screwed and there's no point in going to the playoff if you aren't going to prevent that.

I'm an Alabama fan(atic), and in the current flawed system, I am not beefing about not having a shot at the championship. We got to play Florida for it, and did not win. But if I woke up tomorrow and found out that frickin' Cincinnati or Virginia Tech got to play for it and Alabama was shut out, I'd grab a torch and pitchfork and march on whatever place needs to be marched on.

Another problem with making it conference-based: when did God say which 6 conferences get to send their champs?

No, the 8 teams with the highest BCS rankings, conference championships irrelevant, is the way to go. Otherwise, 16 teams with several at-large berths, or else just don't bother.


Is strength-of-schedule (none / 0) (#58)
by oculus on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 10:02:16 PM EST

component as the season goes forward? For example, if at the beginning of the season Purdue is deemed a bottom-feeder, but later starts winning, does the computer adjust for that factor as to other opponents of Purdue?


: I believe (none / 0) (#60)
by cal1942 on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 10:23:38 PM EST

that adjustments are made every week based on a past opponents current won - lost record.
But that's based on a vague memory of what I heard a year or so back.

How would a playoff (none / 0) (#2)
by oculus on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:10:53 PM EST

factor in the North/South Big 12 and any other conference that makes this artificial (to me) division? For example, if Oklahoma and Texas were both better than Missouri, could both OK and TX be in the playoffs and not Missouri?

Also, shouldn't it be Oklahoma vs. Florida?

Finally, Alabama won one more game than the teams above it. Must matter a great deal what have you done for me lately.

Alabama's (5.00 / 1) (#61)
by cal1942 on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 10:25:51 PM EST

final record was 12-1 as was Oklahoma's and Florida's.


: Texas was 11-1. My mistake. (none / 0) (#64)
by oculus on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 01:56:09 AM EST

BTD isn't answering us. Va Tech is number (none / 0) (#8)
by Teresa on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:19:02 PM EST

19 in the BCS rankings and Alabama is number 4. Doesn't make any sense to just take the conference champs in that case. They (VT) lost 4 games.


At large bids (none / 0) (#12)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:21:43 PM EST

with 6 major conference champions.


Holz says 16 seeds irrespective (none / 0) (#18)
by oculus on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:26:45 PM EST

of conference.


Disagree (none / 0) (#19)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:27:32 PM EST

Win your conference.


That puts us back to years ago with the (none / 0) (#23)
by Teresa on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:30:12 PM EST

NCAA tournament. Can you imagine how many top 17 teams in the SEC sat at home every year because Kentucky always went? Or Pac 10 teams. I don't like that.


Does a NCAA basketball team have (5.00 / 1) (#28)
by oculus on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:32:31 PM EST

to win its conference to reach March madness?


: No (none / 0) (#63)
by cal1942 on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 01:13:49 AM EST

: They absolutely did (none / 0) (#67)
by Steve M on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 08:24:29 AM EST

back in the day. Not any more, but that's because they expanded the field.
I don't think you can credibly design a system that leaves teams like Alabama out. So it has to be 16 teams, I guess. Otherwise you're creating a system where a given Big East team has a far easier road to the national championship than a given SEC team, year in and year out.

Well (none / 0) (#29)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:32:48 PM EST

that's the way it goes.

8 team playoff works with the system we have.

A 16 team playoff needs changes to the existing system.

We can do that now. No changes necessary none. Add a semifinal round - that's it.


I agree on the eight teams for a start but (5.00 / 1) (#34)
by Teresa on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:34:41 PM EST

I'll never be convinced that VT deserves a shot and not Bama. Why Texas instead of Bama? They benefited by not playing in the title game.


The SEC Championship is a playoff game (none / 0) (#36)
by Big Tent Democrat on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:35:42 PM EST

Should get a bye to the final actually . . .


: We agree there. (none / 0) (#37)
by Teresa on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:37:36 PM EST

: Oh please (none / 0) (#54)
by cal1942 on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 09:53:19 PM EST

the SEC gets a legacy within its own conference.

See (none / 0) (#53)
by cal1942 on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 09:48:06 PM EST

disputes already. Name any formula. A raging debate will follow.


Reason please (none / 0) (#57)
by Trickster on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 10:01:00 PM EST

What is there about a conference championship, which can be determined under idiosynchratic local rules, that trumps actually putting the best teams on the field for the playoff?


Hell is frozen oculus. (none / 0) (#27)
by Teresa on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:31:26 PM EST

Lou Holtz and I agree!


: He's fun to watch. (none / 0) (#31)
by oculus on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:33:16 PM EST

Uh, congrats (none / 0) (#9)
by andgarden on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:19:31 PM EST

Not my subject, so I don't have anything useful to contribute.

you have over four weeks to practice your (5.00 / 1) (#11)
by Teresa on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:20:57 PM EST

Gator chomp andgarden. Get busy!


Tebow has it down pat. (5.00 / 1) (#15)
by oculus on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:23:43 PM EST

But he kind of hedged on a fourth Gator season for him.


Hard to imagine (none / 0) (#32)
by lilburro on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:33:34 PM EST

him playing anywhere but Florida. Can you imagine him being that intense about a pro-team? Will he learn to love?


: Hard (none / 0) (#55)
by cal1942 on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 09:55:39 PM EST

to imagine grizzled old pros following along at his level of intensity.

heh (5.00 / 1) (#16)
by andgarden on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:25:23 PM EST

I have less than three days to practice my criminal law, so. . .


You should be in great shape. (5.00 / 2) (#26)
by oculus on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:31:22 PM EST

Afterall, you read Talk Left. Just remember, no one is guilty of anything unless they are a cop.


: or Sarah Palin? I am whispering but I can't (5.00 / 3) (#30)
by Teresa on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:32:53 PM EST

figure out how to type small.

: hehehehehe (5.00 / 2) (#35)
by andgarden on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:35:22 PM EST

SHHHHHHHHH

Ha. OSU plays in the Tostitos (none / 0) (#33)
by oculus on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:34:33 PM EST

Fiesta Bowl.

well the big 12 (none / 0) (#38)
by lilburro on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:38:40 PM EST

needs to put its house in order, I think. Texas seems to have been massively screwed. Missouri shouldn't have been Oklahoma's opponent last night.

If Missouri hadn't been (none / 0) (#40)
by oculus on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:42:22 PM EST

Oklahoma's opponent last night, would the Gators be in the BCS champinship game?


Yes, they would have played the winner of (none / 0) (#41)
by Teresa on Sun Dec 07, 2008 at 08:49:53 PM EST

Texas/Oklahoma if they had played for their title. They need to realign the Big 12 or something.


: In fact, (none / 0) (#66)
by easilydistracted on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 07:31:30 AM EST

just last year, the strength was in the north. KU and MU (recall the controversy over the Orange Bowl and KU's ultimate whipping of VT, which sorta stunned everyone). Look out for NU in a couple of years. Lost in all of this hullabaloo is the fact that NU was co-champs of the north this year.

NYT's William Rhoden supports (none / 0) (#65)
by oculus on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 01:59:46 AM EST

playoff:

There is already a perfectly sound playoff (none / 0) (#68)
by Slado on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 08:32:16 AM EST

scenario. Just look at NAIA, Div III, II and I-AA for the format.

The problem is those schools aren't playing 12 games as the Div-I schools are now. So the 12 game schedule was really a clever tactic to get a playoff off the table. Now you would be asking schools to give up 1 or 2 home games to enable teams to not have a 16 game season if they went all the way and that won't happen.

The real issue is D-I football is the only sport not controlled by the NCAA. NCAA controls all other sports including footbal except at the D-I level. For a playoff ever to happen the control of this sport has to be taken away from the confrences and university presidents and be given to the NCAA.

Until that happens, no play-off.

Let Bush do it, just like Nixon... (none / 0) (#70)
by alsace on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 09:59:24 AM EST

1969...Richard Nixon decided the winner of the Texas - Arkansas game would be the National Champion, and the polls went along.
A Nittany Lion never forgets.

OU is undeserving (none / 0) (#71)
by lobary on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 12:08:02 PM EST

There is no way in hell OU is better than Texas and one of the two best teams in college football. OU lost to Texas on a neutral field by ten points. Texas lost to Texas Tech on the road in the biggest football game in Lubbock history, and they lost on the last play of the game.

There are eight (none / 0) (#73)
by JThomas on Mon Dec 08, 2008 at 01:41:30 PM EST

schools that have been to 5 or more January bowls among the Big Six conferences the last 7 years.

Georgia
Florida
LSU
Michigan
Ohio St.
Iowa
USC
Oklahoma

Bottom line, is that with an 8 team playoff you would get about 75% of the same teams year after year...and the bowl system dies on the vine. So you would have the same 6 schools in there every year whil 108 other schools would go home in mid-november every year...season over.
That would suck. It would be the NFL with a few classes mixed in. Not for me...I like what we have.
Congrats on the Gators.