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Coleman: I'm Too Important For A Recount

Did you know that Norm Coleman is too important for a recount? Where's Justice Scalia when you need him? Via TPM:

For the record the "magnitude" of Coleman's lead is 305 votes out of 2,859,891 cast. Or 0.001%. Coleman says that if he was in Al Franken's shoes, he would concede. I submit that he is in Al Franken's shoes - it was a virtual tie. So he can concede if he feels so strongly about it.

By Big Tent Democrat, speaking for me only

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    Gawd (5.00 / 6) (#8)
    by Steve M on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:18:20 PM EST
    Coleman is such a putz.  If we can't get rid of Saxby Chambliss, then at least Coleman has to go.

    In response to some of the other commentors, I'm not particularly old, and I've seen a great many candidates accede to a recount without making a silly statement like this one.  The idea that every single leading candidate in this situation always whines about the necessity for a recount just isn't supported by reality.

    As always (1.00 / 1) (#14)
    by Pepe on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:23:19 PM EST
    thanks for the opinion not backed by any facts or examples.

    Parent
    You mean like this: (5.00 / 6) (#15)
    by coigue on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:25:36 PM EST
    "Franken would be saying the same thing were he in the lead"

    Parent
    So you disagree (none / 0) (#29)
    by Pepe on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:48:07 PM EST
    that he would?

    If so say so.

    Parent

    I mean that your assertion (5.00 / 0) (#31)
    by coigue on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:50:22 PM EST
    is based on exactly zero facts.

    Which makes you a hypocrite.

    Parent

    Oh so you are not going to (1.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Pepe on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 03:07:53 PM EST
    say what you think Franken would do or what you would wish he would do if the shoe were on the other foot like I did? Why not don't you ever have an opinion?

    You see that is what I gave was an opinion, just like you do daily. As opposed to your friend Steve who was not offering an opinion. What he was doing was saying posters on this thread were wrong. That is not an opinion that is calling out people. And when you call people out you should backup you assertion which he did not do.

    See the difference bunky?

    In case you haven't noticed blogs are 90% opinions. But when you call out a bunch of posters and say they are wrong and can't backup your words then you should have kept your mouth shut. Who is Steve to say people are wrong and not offer one piece of evidence to back it up? So that is what I told him. Just another Steve post mouthing off at others without anything to back it up. He does that. Often.

    See the difference? Obviously you didn't but it was there in black and white. Have a great day.

    Parent

    bunky? (none / 0) (#52)
    by coigue on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 07:16:24 PM EST
    LOL!

    Parent
    Sorry (5.00 / 5) (#16)
    by Steve M on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:26:33 PM EST
    Are you going to descend into more crazed ranting if I don't give you examples?  Because I don't really care what you say.

    Parent
    wow. (5.00 / 0) (#22)
    by coigue on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:34:31 PM EST
    that was something.

    Parent
    It's the Internet (5.00 / 1) (#26)
    by Steve M on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:42:51 PM EST
    you meet all kinds.

    Parent
    Of course (none / 0) (#25)
    by Pepe on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:41:49 PM EST
    you don't care what I say...

    That is why you are obsessed with posting links of what I say!!! ROTFLMAO.

    The irony.

    You are hilarious.

    Parent

    Are you really rolling on the floor right now. (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by coigue on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:49:05 PM EST
    How do you type at the same time?

    Parent
    I believe. . . (5.00 / 2) (#41)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 03:17:13 PM EST
    you don't care what I say

    that is the rapidly evolving consensus opinion here.

    Parent

    That's pretty much (1.00 / 4) (#45)
    by Pepe on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 03:29:25 PM EST
    the kind of post I've come to expect from you. No one said anything to you but like a dog in a park you had to come along and leave your scent and then stick your nose in it to make sure you were relevant. Hows it smell?

    I'm out kiddies. Read your posts and then tell me you are serious players. lol

    Parent

    smells like : (none / 0) (#53)
    by coigue on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 07:17:45 PM EST
    Pepe' le Pew.

    Parent
    You whine (none / 0) (#12)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:19:56 PM EST
    if there is some advantage to whining - See Bush, 2000.

    HEre there is no advantage. there is a disadvantage.

    Parent

    a lesson known to many children (5.00 / 2) (#13)
    by coigue on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:21:45 PM EST
    but too few parents.

    Parent
    I just wonder if Franken call pull this off (5.00 / 1) (#18)
    by andgarden on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:27:34 PM EST
    Even the adjusted exit poll showed him ahead a point, so I wonder if the provisional ballots can do it.

    I hope so ... (5.00 / 7) (#24)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:39:00 PM EST
    we should have at least one guy in the Senate who KNOWS he's a comedian!

    ;)

    Parent

    I'm praying for (none / 0) (#54)
    by gyrfalcon on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 07:47:19 PM EST
    Franken and Barney Frank to be on some joint House-Senate committee or something together.

    Parent
    And, did you notice how far off the exits ... (none / 0) (#32)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:54:58 PM EST
    were in the Oregon Senate race?

    Merkeley 49% (men) 50% (women)

    Smith 45% (men)  45% (women)

    With a gender split of 51% women and 49% men.

    Merkeley should have won fairly easily.

    Parent

    Exits were pretty crappy last night (none / 0) (#34)
    by andgarden on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 03:01:53 PM EST
    in general. They almost supported my 281 call!!!!

    I think most of the outstanding votes in OR are for Merkley, so he should knock off Gordo.

    Parent

    Let's hope so ... (none / 0) (#37)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 03:09:42 PM EST
    but CNN has the gap at about 10,000 votes.  Are there enough outstanding ballots to make up for that?

    I grew up in Oregon and my parents still live there.  They say Smith ran a very dirty campaign.  

    Parent

    Smith has a lead of about 12,000 votes (none / 0) (#40)
    by caseyOR on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 03:16:33 PM EST
    But, as of 1 PM PST, there are 100,000 outstanding votes from Multnomah County. There should be enough enough votes there to push Merkley over the top. Here's hoping.

    Smith ran a disgusting campaign, but the DSCC ads on behalf of Jeff were pretty bad, too. And I think that may have hurt Jeff more than it did Gordon.

    Parent

    That's good ... (none / 0) (#46)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 03:33:46 PM EST
    if those votes follow the trend for Multnomah County that should be enough.

    Parent
    Merkley just pulled ahead (none / 0) (#50)
    by andgarden on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 05:13:37 PM EST
    I think he's gonna win this.

    Parent
    Called for Merkley (none / 0) (#55)
    by caseyOR on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 08:08:49 PM EST
    KGW-TV (Portland) and the Oregonian have just called the senate race for Jeff Merkley. They based this on not yet counted ballots in Multnomah County, the liberal and most populous county in Oregon. Yeh!

    80,000 ballots were dropped off yesterday in Multnomah County. That is on top of all the ballots that had been returned over the past two weeks.

    Parent

    We'll see what Coleman says if (5.00 / 4) (#19)
    by magster on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:27:37 PM EST
    provisional ballots and/or county by county audits put Franken ahead before the recount.

    A Message to Norm, (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by pcpablo on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 03:23:31 PM EST
    Hey Norm, you are the incumbent, in America incumbents ALWAYS win.  Your opponent is a comedian, he never ran for office.  Less than 400 votes separate you two.
    The moral of this story...YOU LOST! Big time, by a landslide, you should be embarrassed.  
    Concede.


    Too true! n/t (none / 0) (#48)
    by Fabian on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 05:01:27 PM EST
    The real problem (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Jake Left on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 03:24:35 PM EST
    is that it shouldn't be close enough for a recount. It's like the nationals in 2000 and 2004. Everyone fretted over Florida and Ohio results, worrying over a few thousand votes. I just kept wondering how it could ever be close. What moron would think that Norm Coleman should be getting to vote on laws for our country. What a fall from grace -- going from Wellstone to Coleman.

    If I weren't from Texas, I would be ranting about how stupid the people of Minnesota are.

    The only stupidity I se here (none / 0) (#47)
    by BrianJ on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 04:19:33 PM EST
    Is nominating a comedian.

    The Democrats got cute, and it may cost them a Senate seat.  They did this at the national level too, but McCain was bad enough that it worked anyway.

    Parent

    No, (1.50 / 2) (#3)
    by bocajeff on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:11:28 PM EST
    It's called politics. Most people when they have the lead want the game to end. On the other hand, when you are losing you want to keep going on just in case a miracle happens and you win.

    Lousy post, imo.

    Someone. . . (5.00 / 5) (#4)
    by LarryInNYC on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:12:26 PM EST
    has not been taking his Obama brand happy pills today.

    Parent
    Where's the lawyers? (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by Fabian on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:16:20 PM EST
    I want a squadron of GOP lawyers and publicists filing lawsuits and hold press conferences!

    I want DRAMA dagnabit!

    Parent

    Coming from you . . . (5.00 / 3) (#7)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:17:24 PM EST
    Naw, I am in a good mood today.

    For the record, since Franken is NOT going to listen to him, it is lousy politics from Coleman to say what he said. He looks like a self important blowhard who wants to short circuit the electoral process. Oh wait, he IS a self important blowhard who wants to short circuit the electoral process.

    Lousy comment, imo.

    Parent

    action is essence (5.00 / 1) (#11)
    by coigue on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:19:12 PM EST
    he's acting the ass, he is the ass.

    Parent
    That was a great result (5.00 / 1) (#42)
    by Steve M on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 03:18:03 PM EST
    They tell me Gregoire is a good governor but a lousy campaigner.  Nice to see vengeance alone wasn't enough to carry the GOP across the finish line.

    Parent
    Your info is correct (none / 0) (#49)
    by shoephone on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 05:11:45 PM EST
    Gregoire has been a very good governor. And she is a flawed campaigner because she has a hard time coming off as natural and using the charm offensive. She is very stern in public (she's a former prosecutor) but very nice one-on-one. Like a lot of politicians she is a very intelligent, hard-working wonk, but not too good in front of the camera. That being said, she has been 100 times better than the previous Democratic governor (Locke). She is also a breast cancer survivor.

    I'm really relieved she won so handily this time.

    Parent

    I don't think (none / 0) (#10)
    by Pepe on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:19:07 PM EST
    it is a lousy post but there are more important issues at hand. Other than that upthread I pretty much agree with you - It is called politics. SOP.

    Parent
    And don't forget... (none / 0) (#51)
    by shoephone on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 05:13:40 PM EST
    The state GOP went after US atty John McKay because he did not find enough evidence for investigating the Dems over the recounts.

    Parent
    Thats how the GOP plays their game. (none / 0) (#1)
    by hairspray on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:04:35 PM EST
    Its Chutzpah all the way.

    Franken would be saying the same thing (1.00 / 1) (#5)
    by Pepe on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:16:19 PM EST
    if he were in the lead. I'd be disappointed if he didn't. There is nothing new here as this is just politics and what Colemen did is SOP.

    The law says there can be a runoff and Franken wants one so there will be one. I'd be disappointed if Franken didn't ask for one. Coleman would do the same. In the end I think Coleman will prevail.

    Parent

    I'd be disappointed if he did (5.00 / 5) (#9)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:18:59 PM EST
    Because it is a stupid thing to say.

    The recount will happen and Coleman looks (is) a self important blowhard trying to shortcircuit the electoral process.

    Parent

    The recount is mandated, right? (none / 0) (#20)
    by Fabian on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:29:48 PM EST
    Ohio has a 0.5% trip for an automatic recount.  I assume any race that is even closer trips a recount.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#23)
    by Steve M on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:35:15 PM EST
    it's automatic but I suspect the trailing candidate could waive it if he really wanted to.  It's a different state with different laws, obviously, but Alaska's Lt Gov waived the recount when he lost a primary by 304 votes earlier this year.

    Parent
    I suppose. (none / 0) (#27)
    by Fabian on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:43:05 PM EST
    Unlikely though.

    Parent
    Well (none / 0) (#28)
    by Steve M on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:44:13 PM EST
    according to some guy downthread, it happens all the time that the trailing candidate says he wants a recount, the leading candidate whines about it, and the trailing candidate decides to throw in the towel after all.  I guess that could be true.

    Parent
    If that's all that it takes (none / 0) (#38)
    by Fabian on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 03:13:11 PM EST
    I guess the trailing candidate didn't want the job very much.  

    Parent
    It seems unlikely to me (5.00 / 1) (#39)
    by Steve M on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 03:15:32 PM EST
    but the commentor in question has a well-documented aversion to opinions backed by no facts or examples, so I assume it does in fact happen all the time!

    Parent
    It's an SOP political move (none / 0) (#21)
    by Pepe on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:32:29 PM EST
    It costs nothing to do and it sometimes gets your opponent to back-off and walk away. If it does that it is a frigging smart thing to do. If it doesn't it costs nothing. If you don't play every legitimate card available to you then you don't belong in politics.

    Bloggers may get upset but the people in the state where the race is could care less.

    Parent

    What "healing process" is ... (none / 0) (#2)
    by Robot Porter on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:09:27 PM EST
    he talking about?

    Coleman has an inflated sense of his own importance.

    it was actually (none / 0) (#33)
    by cpinva on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 02:59:10 PM EST
    a pretty stupid thing to say, given the narrowness of the margin separating them. i expect franken is laughing about this as we speak. but give coleman credit for chutzpah.

    it's not like coleman has all this important stuff to do, that a recount is going to keep him from. heck, it won't even delay the swearing-in ceremony.

    Can the fact that (none / 0) (#56)
    by mg7505 on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 10:50:09 PM EST
    this was even close be blamed on the Independent (Dean Barkley) who got about 400,000 votes? If that is even remotely possible, and given what I know about Dean Barkley, he should be banned from any political activity for the next century.

    Gosh, I hope Norm loses. My fondest memory of (none / 0) (#57)
    by DeborahNC on Wed Nov 05, 2008 at 11:43:07 PM EST
    him is when he was questioning(?) George Galloway and Galloway wiped the floor with him. The look on Norm's face was priceless.

    How can the good people of Minnesota go from electing Paul Wellstone to Norm Coleman??

    Washington 2004 (none / 0) (#58)
    by Ellis on Thu Nov 06, 2008 at 04:26:06 AM EST
    In the governor's race in Washington State in 2004 the results were even closer than Franken/Coleman. The recount was required by law. I don't think any candidate should ever withdraw under those circumstances.

    In the Washington case, the first recount, which was simply running the punch cards through the machines a second time, didn't change the leader, but it did tighten the count. The Democrat then called for a manual recount, and that put her in the lead -- for the win -- by 133 votes (or thereabout). I was an observer during the recount and the manual recount was almost certainly more accurate than the original machine counts. There were plenty of punch cards with chad problems that it was easy to see how the machine could have miscounted, but upon careful visual inspection showed the clear intent of the voter.

    I think anyone who participates in an election has every right to exhaust every legal and legitimate step in finalizing a vote count. The truth is that in an election with millions of votes and a margin of fewer than a couple of hundred votes, there may be no way to guarantee that the real winner is identified -- especially using punch cards. We've done away with punch cards now, so no more hanging or dimpled chads, but it is still amazing how creative people can be in disguising what their true intent was. People simply don't take voting seriously enough.

    Everyone should probably vote on a practice ballot first and when they are sure they have their votes exactly the way they want them, transfer their marks to the final ballot.

    If Coleman (who I despise) were a few hundred or even a thousand votes behind Franken, I think he would owe it to himself and his supporters to exhaust the legal procedures in place to determine as well as humanly possible who the winner is. I don't think anyone should ever even consider conceding until the process is complete.

    In an election as close as this, recounting is absolutely necessary.