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Nashville Post Debate Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:32:30 PM EST
Tags: John McCain, Barack Obama, 2008 (all tags)
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Thankfully, it's over. It was a terrible debate format, Tom Brokaw disappointed, McCain was incoherent, snivelling and condescending. Obama appeared Presidential.

You Tube above is of McCain calling Obama "That One."

What did you think?

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    Nashville Post Debate Thread | 169 comments (169 topical)

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    I think (5.00 / 5) (#1)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:34:33 PM EST
    John McCain is a reckless, feckless blithering idiot.

    This debate was so bad (5.00 / 1) (#15)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:38:03 PM EST
    That I could do not care what the pundits say.

    Awful debate. Did not matter at all.

    Parent

    Dreadful. (5.00 / 1) (#171)
    by oldpro on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 02:46:28 AM EST
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..

    Gawd, I can't imagine listening to either one of these people droning on and on...on my television for the next four years.

    Parent

    And I am done for the night (none / 0) (#17)
    by Big Tent Democrat on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:38:57 PM EST
    Enjoy the nonsensical punditry.

    Night.

    Parent

    Whoa! (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:40:07 PM EST
    You sound pissed.  Do you think McCain did himself any good?  Or are you just sore he hit the HOLC before Obama did?

    Parent
    I am a bit annoyed by that (none / 0) (#115)
    by Socraticsilence on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:28:42 PM EST
    Seriously, Obama should have backed that, and now he might not be able to (would look like a follower) but man McCain's base is going to savage him over that, seriously Romney was on Fox trying to explain it and looked non-sensical.

    Parent
    No runs, no errors. (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:34:40 PM EST
    Another debate in which Obama did just fine -- I think he probably won by more than in the first debate.

    McCain did not go all jiggy on Obama.  That probably means it's coming from somewhere else tomorrow.

    Probably be worth a couple more points to Obama if people were watching.

    one run: (5.00 / 0) (#16)
    by coigue on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:38:17 PM EST
    I don't understand (about Mccain's judgement on Iraq)

    Parent
    I'm squeezed for time, but my impression (5.00 / 0) (#3)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:35:20 PM EST
     from watching most of this is that McCain finished digging his own political grave. That creepy move where he went up and touched the questioner will be a gaffe of the night.

    How about (4.00 / 2) (#10)
    by CCinNC on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:36:56 PM EST
    when he called Obama "that one"?

    Obama did well.  There were times tho when I wished he'd just answer the question already.

    Parent

    I almost fell off my chair (5.00 / 2) (#20)
    by litigatormom on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:39:14 PM EST
    when he referred to Obama as "that one."

    Well, I guess we should be grateful he didn't call him "boy."

    Parent

    BWAHAHA! (none / 0) (#35)
    by shoulin4 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:45:29 PM EST
    You have a keen knack for making me lol!

    Parent
    that was horrible (none / 0) (#14)
    by byteb on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:37:51 PM EST


    Parent
    Missed that (none / 0) (#22)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:40:00 PM EST
    OK, I'm with BTD. Gotta go.

    Night all.

    Parent

    Andgarden, more? (none / 0) (#9)
    by Lil on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:36:32 PM EST
    what do you mean? The miltary guy?

    Parent
    Yup (none / 0) (#11)
    by andgarden on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:37:29 PM EST


    Parent
    They need color commentators. . . (none / 0) (#12)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:37:34 PM EST
    on NPR!  Like "And of course I don't believe that we should drop the bomb on New York (and now he's getting out of his seat, Bob, and. . . and. . . he's touched the questioner Bob!  The audiences is going wild!)

    What happened?

    Parent

    I rather doubt it will (none / 0) (#172)
    by oldpro on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 02:54:28 AM EST
    be seen as a gaffe...more likely the "that one" comment will be.

    Wierd.

    Parent

    I agree (5.00 / 2) (#6)
    by proudliberaldem on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:35:38 PM EST
    Obama was strong over all, McCain and Brokaw were terrible.  I can't believe the question about Russia as the evil empire.

    The hypothetical (none / 0) (#146)
    by cal1942 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:10:27 PM EST
    about Iran attacking Israel was also a poor choice. Brokaw and staff chose those questions from audience submissions.

    It was a waste of a question because neither candidate is going to say ... 'Well if the UN says stay out of it then we'll comply and let Israel burn'

    People also tend to forget that Israel has the bomb and probably the means to deliver it. A standoff.  Iran is well aware of Israel's nuclear capability. Iran ain't gonna attack Israel. Their rhetoric is just trash talk to keep the fanatic elements in their country happy. Unfortunately that trash talk geeks up the right-wing in this country and Israel.

    Parent

    Soooooo..... (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by coigue on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:36:26 PM EST
    What do ya all think of Gwen Ifill now?

    Ifill (none / 0) (#147)
    by cal1942 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:11:24 PM EST
    is still unfit as is Brokaw.

    Parent
    I think the 'That One' comment is going to get (5.00 / 4) (#13)
    by steviez314 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:37:46 PM EST
    A LOT of play.

    Video already up. . . (5.00 / 0) (#19)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:39:07 PM EST
    at Big Orange.

    Parent
    Toobin agrees (5.00 / 1) (#25)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:40:58 PM EST
    on CNN.  He thinks that was very odd and will get a lot of play.

    Parent
    So incredibly offensive (5.00 / 3) (#26)
    by litigatormom on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:41:12 PM EST
    I was gobsmacked by that.

    Parent
    Indeed. (none / 0) (#58)
    by Faust on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:56:08 PM EST
    It took me a little by suprise. Practically a freudian slip.

    Parent
    Faust (5.00 / 0) (#83)
    by cal1942 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:05:19 PM EST
    You're probably right on the Freudian slip.

    Tells a lot but if not a slip it may have been code.

    Parent

    Whatever it was (none / 0) (#154)
    by Faust on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:33:16 PM EST
    it was horrible.

    Can you IMAGINE if Obama had done the same thing. Imagine it.

    First, it's hard to imagine it.

    Second, if Obama did it they would MURDER him with it.

    Def a case of It's OK if you are a Republican. And myabe a case of something else as well.

    Parent

    Didn't Bill Clinton call Monica Lewinsky (none / 0) (#158)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 12:01:28 AM EST
    "that woman"?   What's the difference?

    Parent
    I dont think... (none / 0) (#164)
    by Thanin on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 12:52:23 AM EST
    that was very great on Bills part either.

    Parent
    Not to mention he was lying when he said it (none / 0) (#169)
    by Faust on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 01:45:10 AM EST
    but that's not really that noteworthy in politics.

    Parent
    The difference (none / 0) (#166)
    by cal1942 on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 12:59:01 AM EST
    is that he identified her as a woman and then quickly added her name.

    'this one' has at least a couple of implications. None of them even neutral.

    If McCain had said 'this man' IMO it would have made all the difference.

    This one sounds all too much like ... one of them ...

    Parent

    The sad thing is (none / 0) (#168)
    by Faust on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 01:44:16 AM EST
    that you're not snarking this time.

    Are you seriously this blind? What if Obama had done the exact same thing? It have been blown up beyond all proportion.

    It was an absurd moment for a presidential debate. Refering to your opponent as "that one?"

    Ridiculous.

    Parent

    The format stinks. That handicapped both (5.00 / 0) (#21)
    by Teresa on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:39:17 PM EST
    candidates and Brokaw too. He was flustered and didn't have control because of the rules. He did chose sucky questions.

    CNN talking heads liked this debate better??

    just heard (5.00 / 2) (#32)
    by connecticut yankee on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:43:33 PM EST
    David Brooks and David Gergen both say Obama took it.   That sounds good.

    Buchanan says McCain won. Surprise! (none / 0) (#40)
    by byteb on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:46:33 PM EST
    But he said that Obama looked Presidential.

    Parent
    As did a former Republican speech (none / 0) (#159)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 12:03:35 AM EST
    writer (can't remember his name).  He sd. Obama looked Presidential.

    Parent
    HAHAHAHAHA (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by TruthMatters on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:43:48 PM EST
    Obama wins in Fox focus group

    by how much?? (5.00 / 0) (#49)
    by coigue on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:49:37 PM EST


    Parent
    Whoopee! (5.00 / 0) (#81)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:04:56 PM EST
    Obama won on Fox! I can't stand it! I'm overcome with joy!

    Parent
    In other news. . . (5.00 / 0) (#87)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:07:01 PM EST
    eleven bodies of focus group participants found in alley off West 54th Street.

    Parent
    Buchanan says McCain (5.00 / 0) (#34)
    by litigatormom on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:45:12 PM EST
    won, but says that Obama looked unflappable and gave people reassurance of his leadership qualities.

    So how did McCain win? Didn't he have to destroy Obama? Or at least make him look unpresidential?

    Buchanan said Obama looked presidential (5.00 / 0) (#42)
    by sallywally on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:46:49 PM EST
    at least twice that I heard so far....

    Parent
    Translate that from Buchanan-speak. . . (5.00 / 1) (#46)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:48:23 PM EST
    and it means he really thinks Obama won.

    Most commentators will either give you the straight answer or just lie -- but I really believe that Buchanan just can't conceive that a black man might dominate in an intellectual exercise like this debate (I may be giving the debate more credit than it is due).  Since he can't imagine it, even if he thinks Obama did well, McCain must still have "won".

    Parent

    Buchanan (none / 0) (#88)
    by cal1942 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:07:12 PM EST
    is AT BOTTOM a partisan Republican in spite of his run in 2000.

    Parent
    More importantly. . . (5.00 / 0) (#92)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:11:43 PM EST
    he's a dyed-in-the-wool bigot.

    Parent
    Yeah (none / 0) (#165)
    by cal1942 on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 12:53:36 AM EST
    that too.  But he's a non-discriminatory bigot.

    He hates everyone not like him.

    Parent

    100 percent of (5.00 / 1) (#43)
    by kmblue on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:47:03 PM EST
    the CNN panel thinks Obama and McCain don't like each other!

    Ya think?

    Quick, someone check on Tweety.  

    Tweety thinks (none / 0) (#48)
    by litigatormom on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:48:55 PM EST
    that the story of the debate will be that McCain was too embarrassed to make the sort of attacks that he's had Palin make.

    I'm not sure whether that is meant to be a compliment, or a statement of McCain's hypocrisy.

    Parent

    It's a statement of Tweety's disappointment (5.00 / 2) (#59)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:56:21 PM EST


    Parent
    McCain walked into an HOLC trap (5.00 / 1) (#44)
    by Karningul on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:47:56 PM EST
    Pundits on CNN saying McCain introduced the HOLC idea as his own idea.

    Now Team Obama needs to jump on board and point out that in order to try and score cheap political points, McCain stole the idea from the Democrats, from Hillary.

    Point out that she even made a SPEECH about it on the Senate floor and ask if he missed it or something.

    Has Obama ever recognized (5.00 / 3) (#51)
    by sallywally on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:50:30 PM EST
    that this program was out there and that Clinton gave a speech or two about it?

    What would be wrong with it that Obama could not have said in speeches and tonight that it was a good idea suggested by her and being considered by his campaign?

    Parent

    They could do that if (5.00 / 3) (#53)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:50:46 PM EST
    Obama had embraced it himself. But he hasn't, as far as I've heard.

    Parent
    I don't think it matters (none / 0) (#62)
    by Karningul on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:57:13 PM EST
    The original program was part of the New Deal. Dems own this idea imo.

    Parent
    Hillary also (5.00 / 2) (#99)
    by cal1942 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:15:02 PM EST
    had a column in the Wall Street Journal a week or so back outlining HOLC. Katie Couric made the claim that no one else had made such a proposal.  Why is media so willfully ignorant, especially those earning $15 million a year?

    What McCain didn't say was what the Federal government would pay for those mortgages.  A very important issue IMO. If they're bought at face value ... OMG.

    Parent

    Don't you wish you could get paid (none / 0) (#157)
    by sallywally on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:40:54 PM EST
    as much more than they do, in proportion to how much more you know than they do?

    Makes me crazy.

    Parent

    Hillary's WSJ piece (none / 0) (#175)
    by AccidentalTourist on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 09:40:49 AM EST
    should have been required reading for everyone, everywhere. It astounds me that McCain is claiming this as a "new" policy proposal and the MSM is going along. What are they, goldfish? Obama needs to reclaim this as a Dem initiative. (And ideally give HRC some credit.)

    I was worried about Obama for the first few minutes, but after that I thought he did well. (Not as convincing on foreign policy, but that's okay - the election's about the economy now.) Even apart from the physical contrast, I thought McCain was terrible. Obama won the "who looks more presidential" sweepstakes hands down.

    Parent

    I thought McCain's answers were mostly horrible (5.00 / 1) (#50)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:49:47 PM EST
    because I just don't agree with him on policy.  But I was not put off by the 'that one' or touching the Navy chief, or that stuff.  I think that was just style. That one did, this one didn't.  It was odd enugh that it will get played up though.

    These uncommitted voters (5.00 / 2) (#55)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:54:00 PM EST
    are...not the sharpest.  The one guy did not get enough information on health care.

    Yes, I keep wanting to shake them (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by sallywally on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:56:37 PM EST
    yelling, What is WRONG WITH YOU?????

    Parent
    I don't think they're still undecided. (5.00 / 1) (#136)
    by indy in sc on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:45:28 PM EST
    They just realize that if they say they have made up their minds, they will get kicked off of this panel and they want to be invited back for the last debate.

    Parent
    Yep. (none / 0) (#64)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:58:47 PM EST
    Did half of them really think McCain won?  I turned to it a little after Soledad started talking.

    Parent
    Well, (5.00 / 1) (#66)
    by shoulin4 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:00:06 PM EST
    what are you gonna do? There comes a time where one stops being  "undecided" on the grounds of still gathering information and starts being ignorant on the grounds that they just haven't been paying attention.

    Parent
    Or (none / 0) (#107)
    by cal1942 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:20:02 PM EST
    they don't, or can't, understand the ramifications of the differences.

    I've always felt that a pretty significant percentage of independents, frequently undecided and often undecided until election day, are simply confused about politics in general.

    These are the people who are the targets of political TV ads. An explanation why so many of the ads are so awful.

    Parent

    Reminds me of that old SNL sketch (none / 0) (#106)
    by txpublicdefender on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:19:23 PM EST
    Remember the one towards the end of the Bush/Gore election?  It was a spoof of town hall debates.  Everyone who got up to ask a question said he or she was an undecided voter and then proceeded to ask something like, "I believe we should have socialized medicine, higher taxes on oil companies, and abortions on demand.  Can you each tell me if you two have any differences on those issues?"  It was pretty funny.

    Parent
    found a transcript (none / 0) (#113)
    by txpublicdefender on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:23:54 PM EST
    Ha!  I found a transcript of the sketch and am kind of amazed at how well I remembered it from 8 years ago.  Here's a snippet:
    Leslie Dawes: Governor Bush, I've been following the campaign very closely, but I need to know more about where the candidates stand on the issues I really care about: protecting a woman's right to choose; dealing with global warming; and fighting the big oil companies; and HMOs. Do you and the Vice-President have any differences on these issues, which would help me decide which one to support? Right now, I have no idea.

    George W. Bush: Well, Leslie, that's a very good question.. and uh.. thee are differences between the Vice-President and myself on those issues.

    Leslie Dawes: I did not realize that.

    George W. Bush: Yes, and on these issues you seem to be more tuned with him than with me. I'm kind of surprised you're still undecided!

    Jim Lehrer: Mr. Vice-President, response?

    Al Gore: Jim, I agree with the governor on this. Uh.. on each of these issues, Leslie strongly agrees with me and disagrees with my opponent.

    George W. Bush: That's right. That's right.

    Leslie Dawes: I'm sorry, but you're not telling me anything that helps me decide.

    George W. Bush: I think you should vote for Mr. Gore, and not for me.

    Al Gore: I'm gonna agree.

    Leslie Dawes: I still can't decide.

    Here's the whole transcript:   http://snltranscripts.jt.org/00/00cdebate.phtml

    Parent

    Schiefer mentioning HOLC/HOME proposal (5.00 / 2) (#67)
    by sallywally on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:00:24 PM EST
    as McCain's and Couric saying we'll hear a lot more about that now....

    Wonder when Obama will have to say Clinton's been talking about it for some time...and answer why he didn't mention it before.

    I think this could be ... (5.00 / 2) (#155)
    by Robot Porter on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:34:36 PM EST
    the real news.

    McCain running to Obama's left on home mortgages.

    We'll see.

    Parent

    Can someone explain this to me? (5.00 / 2) (#68)
    by Steve M on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:00:29 PM EST
    Republican Leslie Sanchez from CNN says "Obama was wrong on energy security."

    America's energy security is contingent on global energy security. If we reduce our energy consumption the way Senator Obama suggested in the debate, it will merely provide more oil for China, India and other developing economies to buy.

    Can anyone even fathom this one?  If we conserve energy, it gives China more energy to buy... so we must waste even more energy?  Or what?

    There's no (5.00 / 1) (#114)
    by cal1942 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:25:11 PM EST
    sound explanation for gross stupidity.

    She says we'll achieve greater national security by bidding up the price of oil.

    In some ways this is similar to the logic that says we should send more people to die in a mistaken war to somehow justify the deaths of those who've already perished.

    Parent

    Channeling Sarah Palin? (none / 0) (#77)
    by sallywally on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:03:04 PM EST


    Parent
    well (none / 0) (#110)
    by connecticut yankee on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:22:35 PM EST
    If we don't burn it all, the terrorists win!  Oil hates us for our freedoms dontchaknow.

    Parent
    What? (none / 0) (#120)
    by Socraticsilence on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:32:42 PM EST
    So basically, even if ween ourselves off of oil, we should buy and I guess pump it back into the ground so that developing nations can't get it, that's insane.

    Parent
    Oh come on BigTent! (5.00 / 0) (#74)
    by gentlyweepingguitar on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:02:15 PM EST
    Enjoy the moment. I think we're going to win! Let's party. Wake up!

    My friends, you know, that one, (5.00 / 0) (#75)
    by Blowback on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:02:16 PM EST
    McCain sucks!

    Olbermann talking about HOLC now (5.00 / 2) (#103)
    by sallywally on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:17:14 PM EST
    giving McCain credit. Maddow not mentioning Clinton either about this, but saying it's too far left for the right, and righties are mad about this proposal of McCain's.

    Don't these people pay attention?

    to answer your question (5.00 / 1) (#105)
    by kmblue on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:18:45 PM EST
    NO

    Parent
    Who'da thunk it? (none / 0) (#119)
    by sallywally on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:32:03 PM EST


    Parent
    Hillary has been disappeared (5.00 / 2) (#109)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:21:57 PM EST


    Parent
    No (none / 0) (#140)
    by cal1942 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:50:11 PM EST
    they don't pay attention.

    Simple answer to simple question.

    Parent

    Not only (5.00 / 2) (#112)
    by call me Ishmael on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:23:29 PM EST
    did Clinton propose it but there is already an option in the bill that just got passed.  Amazing that they don't seem to know that.

    CNN talking about it again, (5.00 / 2) (#117)
    by sallywally on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:31:00 PM EST
    someone said they thought that option was already there, must be what you just said.

    And Hillary remains disappeared.

    So far no one has mentioned her on this.

    Parent

    The pundits (5.00 / 2) (#142)
    by cal1942 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:53:20 PM EST
    apparently don't read the Wall St. Journal.  Hillary had a column proposing HOLC a week or so back.

    Parent
    Exaclty (none / 0) (#128)
    by Socraticsilence on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:37:45 PM EST
    Obama's people pointed that out rigth after the debate, that HOLC style mortage tokeovver is already covered in the recent bill.

    Parent
    Oh, jeez! (5.00 / 1) (#132)
    by stevea66 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:41:33 PM EST
    He had to correct McCain, because McCain was wrong.  It's that simple.  If he let McCain distort everything, we wouldn't have a clue as to what Barack is really about.  Wouldn't you correct someone with this much on the line?  It's not like Obama was wrong.

    McCain is The One! (none / 0) (#138)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:47:56 PM EST
    He cannot be contradicted!  All hail the great McCain!

    Parent
    Toobin thinks Brokaw did a bad job (4.66 / 3) (#69)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:00:34 PM EST
    Good for him.

    Heh (4.66 / 3) (#134)
    by Steve M on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:43:07 PM EST
    When McCain blames the entire economic crisis on "Obama and his friends," and your reaction is that Obama's response to that wasn't respectful enough, you're probably just not inclined to be rational this cycle.  See you again in four years, hopefully.

    Did the audience have rules? (4.50 / 2) (#95)
    by hitchhiker on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:12:15 PM EST
    Were they required to sit with neutral expressions and hands folded?  They looked like they'd been flown in from Finland to pass judgment on the drapes.

    This debate was a little bit amusing; McCain is done.  I watched it on CNN with the little graph lines tracking every second.  This was followed by a ridiculous woman asking random Ohioans (the people who gave us W in '04, remember?) talk about their impressions.  

    What a silly culture we live in.  If nothing were at stake, it would be more funny than tragic.  As it is, tho' ~  more tragic, definitely.

    Strict rules for the audience. (5.00 / 1) (#97)
    by Teresa on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:13:38 PM EST
    I liked you drapes comment though. :)

    Parent
    LOL (5.00 / 1) (#100)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:16:20 PM EST
    Yes, the audience rarely looked like they even understood a word. That might be why I found the whole thing  little disjointed - I was looking at those faces all night,

    Parent
    Norah O'Donnell (4.00 / 1) (#108)
    by litigatormom on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:20:09 PM EST
    on MSNBC asked a group of undecideds for a show of hands as to who won. Majority said Obama won,  O'Donnell said it was 60-40 but I thought more like 75-25.

    MSNBC graphs were for Dems, Repubs and Independents. The lines were usually pretty much in sync, except for when McCain started talking about buying up old mortgages -- Repubs HATED that. All three lines consistently dropped when McCain went negative or sarcastic.

    I was typing a lot so I missed a lot of the body language, but KO said that McCain looked like he was lame and in pain when he was walking around, KO wondered why McC chose that format.  

    Parent

    CNN (none / 0) (#116)
    by hitchhiker on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:30:11 PM EST
    CNN had all independents, sorted by gender, all from Ohio.  They also went flat whenever a snark attack happened.

    I picked that channel so I could see what the little graphy business was about.  

    Sigh.  I am still kind of bitter about Ohio.

    Parent

    Mmmm (4.00 / 1) (#72)
    by Faust on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:01:23 PM EST
    Generally think it was weaksauce. I am however sauced.

    Most noteworthy thing of the evening was how the opinion dials on CNN would almost invariably collapse whenever either candidate attacked. Since McCain attacked a lot more it made his dials go down more often. So on that level his attacks were simply terrible from a tactical level.

    All the pundits are going to use this to bury McCain. They all were blathering on about how he needed a game changer. Whatever this debate was the one thing it absolutely definitively was NOT was a game changer.

    More of a channel changer? n/t (5.00 / 1) (#79)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:03:35 PM EST


    Parent
    All three debates were like that. Go negative (none / 0) (#78)
    by Teresa on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:03:28 PM EST
    and the lines go down. I sometimes wonder if the people dial down because they agree with the negative statement and are actually dialing down toward the other candidate. Do you know what I'm trying to say?

    Parent
    I do understand - I wondered that too (5.00 / 1) (#90)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:08:42 PM EST
    at one point.  Is it showing disapproval of the speaker or the 'speakee'?

    Parent
    It almost has to be sometimes. (none / 0) (#93)
    by Teresa on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:11:48 PM EST
    If Obama says McCain voted against health care for children, would you dial the positive thing up? I would dial it down for McCain without even thinking that it would register as down for the one speaking. I wouldn't do good with that dial.

    Parent
    Yeah good comment (none / 0) (#152)
    by Faust on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:30:27 PM EST
    I think something like that is possible. However, I think it's more likely that at this time people just aren't into petty bickering. I'd like to think that's why but maybe not :)

    Parent
    Brokaw showed his bias (3.00 / 1) (#4)
    by kmblue on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:35:28 PM EST
    and sucked besides.  Damn, I used to respect him.

    I was really hoping for a stick, however. n/t (none / 0) (#5)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:35:34 PM EST


    well (none / 0) (#8)
    by connecticut yankee on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:36:32 PM EST
    I was too scared tow watch.

    Tell me we are still winning. heh.

    No worries. (none / 0) (#47)
    by liminal on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:48:46 PM EST

    We are still winning.

    Parent
    Obama greeted Cindy (none / 0) (#18)
    by byteb on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:39:03 PM EST
    but I don't think McCain said hello to Michelle.

    He didn't (5.00 / 1) (#29)
    by litigatormom on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:42:29 PM EST
    Wolfie noted that there was a "tiny handshake, finally" between BO and JM. Cindy shook BO's hand and MO. Someone taught her manners.

    Parent
    Anderson (360) is hung up on the physical (none / 0) (#24)
    by Teresa on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:40:52 PM EST
    differences. Why doesn't he just say what he means?

    It is my opinion (none / 0) (#27)
    by robert72 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:41:18 PM EST
    that McCain was in terrible pain throughout. He did not do as well as he could have done - sometimes he couldn't barely walk and I could feel him trying to work through the pain. I think he was very brave.
    Obama did better, but, of course, he is young and doesn't have injuries taken in defense of his country.

    IMO (5.00 / 2) (#45)
    by coigue on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:48:04 PM EST
    McCain deserves a long rest with no stress.

    Parent
    Sounds like a problem (4.50 / 2) (#37)
    by sallywally on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:45:53 PM EST
    if he were president....not very taxing, what he did tonight.

    Unless it was snark?

    Parent

    Is McCain in Pain? (none / 0) (#82)
    by TomStewart on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:05:15 PM EST
    I hadn't heard he was in constant pain from his old injuries. If he is, should he even been running?

    Parent
    I hate Bill Bennett too (none / 0) (#28)
    by coigue on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:42:07 PM EST
    he is really an idiot

    YOU MUST STOP WATCHING NOW (5.00 / 5) (#31)
    by litigatormom on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:43:20 PM EST
    If you watch or listen to him, your mind will melt, and your digestive system will explode.

    Parent
    very funny, litiatrmom, lol (5.00 / 1) (#36)
    by Lil on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:45:43 PM EST
    but Bennett down playing that "That one" line was completely assinine. That will be the story tomorrow

    Parent
    LOL I am watching for (5.00 / 1) (#41)
    by coigue on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:46:41 PM EST
    gergen, Begala, and my fav ragin cajun

    But bloated Bill is a bitter pill....even though he thinks Obama won.

    Parent

    I think he said Obama won. (none / 0) (#30)
    by Teresa on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:43:12 PM EST


    Parent
    Disagree (none / 0) (#123)
    by cal1942 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:34:27 PM EST
    Bennett is worse than an idiot.

    Parent
    I was watching CNBC (none / 0) (#38)
    by liminal on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:45:57 PM EST
    before the debate.  Some Club for Growth type was whining that McCain is being insufficiently Republican.  "The people of American want to hear pro-growth policies! McCain's problem is that he is not proposing pro-growth policies!"

    I would've loved to see that guy eat his tie when McCain started off by stealing HRC's HOLC/HOME proposal.  

    Ah, now Buchanan (none / 0) (#39)
    by litigatormom on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:46:17 PM EST
    says that McC did what he had to do, attack Obama with a smile on his face. Ah, just as Palin won because she didn't drool, McC won because he didn't go postal.

    That is really funny (none / 0) (#54)
    by befuddledvoter on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:52:17 PM EST
    ROFLMAO!!

    Parent
    Smile? (none / 0) (#124)
    by Socraticsilence on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:35:02 PM EST
    McCain shouldn't smile, seriously its creepy.

    Parent
    Let me tell you (none / 0) (#52)
    by Lil on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:50:39 PM EST
    I don't know how McCain gets up to continue his charade tomorrow. Obama was mind blowing, but he didn't have to be. Barring some unknown scandal or weird catstrophe, tonight, I believe it is over. And to think we have one more debate to go.

    Obama wins CBS flash poll (none / 0) (#56)
    by magster on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:55:17 PM EST


    He's winning here too. . . (none / 0) (#57)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:55:53 PM EST
    by 100%.

    Parent
    With a stick he would get 110% at your house (5.00 / 3) (#61)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:57:06 PM EST


    Parent
    health care (none / 0) (#65)
    by kmblue on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 09:59:36 PM EST
    right or responsibility? This  will play big

    They differed...this is a big issue for me.
    Uh oh Tweety final thoughts...oh my, mccain has a menacing smile says Tweety

    Toobin sounds just like BTD in his review (none / 0) (#70)
    by Teresa on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:00:59 PM EST
    of the debate and the format/Brokaw.

    KO jumps on "that one" (none / 0) (#71)
    by kmblue on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:01:12 PM EST
    whatta shockeroo

    He led off with it! n/t (none / 0) (#76)
    by litigatormom on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:02:50 PM EST


    Parent
    Good for him. (none / 0) (#80)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:04:22 PM EST
    It's a shocking piece of video.  If it gets real play McCain may have to apologize.

    Parent
    I think McCain (5.00 / 2) (#86)
    by kmblue on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:06:50 PM EST
    forgot Obama's name.

    Parent
    Seriously, I thought the same thing. (5.00 / 0) (#89)
    by Teresa on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:08:27 PM EST
    I can feel his pain. I forgot my mother's phone number yesterday

    Parent
    Just saw the clip (5.00 / 3) (#91)
    by kmblue on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:10:55 PM EST
    not a killer moment IMHO and I don't like McCain.

    But it may become part of the media narrative, as The Daily Howler would say.

    Parent

    CNN just showed it again (4.66 / 3) (#96)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:12:51 PM EST
    I really don't think it was insulting.  He was on a roll and it was just a storytelling flourish.  It was not said in anger or even sarcasm, that I got anyway. It was out of the ordinary, that's for sure, and in a debate that broke no new ground i can see why they will seize upon any interesting video.  But I hope the Obama camp does not feign outrage over this.

    Parent
    heh (5.00 / 1) (#156)
    by connecticut yankee on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:38:57 PM EST
    Matthews laughed his butt off over it and said it seemed like something an old grandfather would say. Like he can't keep track of his grandkids and just calls them, "that one!"

    Parent
    begala says (none / 0) (#84)
    by kmblue on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:05:54 PM EST
    Obama seemed to talk to all the folks on stage after the debate...says Bill Clinton would have done that too...

    Sigh (5.00 / 3) (#111)
    by Coral on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:23:24 PM EST
    Boring debate. Horrendous format. No tension. Blah, blah, blue.

    I miss Hillary. She would have brightened things up.

    That said, Obama was clear and presidential. McCain seemed to flounder. His speech was vague and awkward.

    I'd say, for anyone who stayed awake through the entire thing, McCain lost because he just seems odd and uncomfortable and his smile seems as if it is pasted on.

    Obama seemed comfortable in his own skin, but lacked humor and charm.

    Parent

    The question about (4.00 / 1) (#133)
    by cal1942 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:43:05 PM EST
    Pakistan was interesting.  The person equated going into Pakistan on actionable intel to Nixon bombing Cambodia. Two totally different circumstances without any parallel in potential fallout.

    Obama blew by that and gave a straight answer.  Good for him.

    When McCain said that Obama would invade Pakistan I wanted to throw something at the TV.

    Parent

    Did Campbell Brown and Gloria Borger both (none / 0) (#85)
    by ruffian on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:06:50 PM EST
    get their jaws wired shut or something? they're creeping me out.

    Obama Blow Out (5.00 / 1) (#94)
    by MTSINAIMAMA on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:12:07 PM EST
    "That One" is the soundbite....McCain looked creepy and OLD. And he did himself no favors by referring to Herbert Hoover and Teddy Roosevelt.

    Parent
    You're right there, but, aaaahhh... (5.00 / 1) (#127)
    by stevea66 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:36:26 PM EST
    those were the days, 'my friends.'

    I guess it's all over, BUT we have to keep working to make sure Obama is elected.  Sit back now and they might pull a fast one on us.  You never know - they're very good at winning elections.  We need to run THROUGH the finish line.

    And, don't decide to not vote on the 4th because you think it's a landslide.  If a third of us do that, McCain wins.

    Parent

    McCain was (none / 0) (#139)
    by cal1942 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:48:22 PM EST
    incorrect when he said that Hoover was the last President to raise taxes during hard economic times.

    FDR raised taxes sharply during the depression.  He raised capital gains taxes and income tax rates on the very wealthy.  When he took office federal income tax rates were NEARLY flat.

    Raising taxes was the right thing to do. McCain keeps skating by the fact that Obama would raise taxes on the most well to do segment of society.

    The pundits shouldn't let McCain get away with that ongoing scam.

    Parent

    CNN snap poll. . . (none / 0) (#98)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:14:21 PM EST
    54 to 30 Obama wins.

    same poll, McCain wins on terroism but (none / 0) (#101)
    by Teresa on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:16:26 PM EST
    Obama blows him away on the economy. I'm waiting on an Osama tape now.

    Parent
    We should be happy, but (5.00 / 1) (#121)
    by Lil on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:32:51 PM EST
    how is it that people think McCain did better on terrorism? The American electorate is brainwashed.

    Parent
    john king is making sense (none / 0) (#102)
    by kmblue on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:17:10 PM EST
    says economy is number one, people don't care about Ayers and Keating

    CNN polling (none / 0) (#104)
    by Karningul on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:18:26 PM EST
    has Obama crushing McCain by over 20 points on economic issues.

    Game...over.

    Similar result (none / 0) (#141)
    by cal1942 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:51:19 PM EST
    in CBS poll.

    Parent
    BAD FORMAT (none / 0) (#118)
    by stevea66 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:31:57 PM EST
    I agree that this was a bad format, and to think that they actually worked for quite a while to agree on it.  There was no real opportunity to articulate details.

    But, I have to say Thank God for this debate.  It showed what these two men are made of and McCain just ain't made of much.

    At the same exact moment he said, "We need someone who has a steady hand at the tiller," his hands were shaking.  He was in no way steady tonight.  He was mad, frustrated...had the energy of poking at people, including the moderator and the voters.

    Amazing.  And his "new proposal" to buy up poor mortgages...it's not new.  It's old, and the rescue plan includes authority to do just that already.  Did he even read the damn thing?  Like he didn't read the three-page plan first presented...as he swooped in to be the savior of our economy?  Yikes!

    On the radio. . . (none / 0) (#125)
    by LarryInNYC on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:35:16 PM EST
    this debate seemed similar to the moderated ones -- perhaps the visuals made a bigger difference.

    And on the issue of the HOLC while we may like it McCain's base is likely to see it as socialized lending.

    Parent

    Andrea Mitchell (none / 0) (#122)
    by stevea66 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:33:44 PM EST
    is talking about this right now on MSNBC and seems to not know that this 'new economic plan' of McCain's is already there.

    None of them know Hillary brought it up first.... (5.00 / 1) (#126)
    by sallywally on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:35:24 PM EST
    well, after FDR....

    or that it is in the current bill.

    What a bunch of idiots!

    Parent

    Hillary. (5.00 / 1) (#130)
    by stevea66 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:39:03 PM EST
    I seem to recall this being mentioned at the same time Paulsen first talked to the press.  Was Hillary in on that...or am I wrong about that all together?

    Parent
    She was. (5.00 / 1) (#131)
    by sallywally on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:40:53 PM EST
    Her comments were quoted on this site, and again later when she named it HOME - forget the individual words making that acronym up.

    Parent
    I believe (5.00 / 1) (#145)
    by cal1942 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:57:32 PM EST
    it was HOLC.  Home Owners Loan Corporation.

    She mentioned it during the primaries and wrote a coluimn in te Wall Street Journal a week or so back.

    Parent

    Mentioned on this site: (5.00 / 1) (#148)
    by sallywally on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:20:13 PM EST
    http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/10/1/172521/798

    Parent
    Thank you (5.00 / 1) (#151)
    by cal1942 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:26:58 PM EST
    it is HOME.  

    Parent
    Good. (none / 0) (#143)
    by stevea66 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:54:56 PM EST
    I heard an economics teacher the other day say that the only real way to fix this constipation we have is to give taxpayers the money.  Divide 700 billion by the number of taxpayers in this country and they'd all receive over $200,000.  If those numbers are correct, just think of it.  Talk about stimulating the economy.  A home for everyone.  The added expendable income for people.  The confidence, relaxation that could take over.  There's a bailout plan.  And his other point was this; it ALL boils down to whether or not taxpayers spend money.  If they don't spend, nothing moves - period.  So, give 'em a chance to spend.

    Parent
    That economics teacher (none / 0) (#167)
    by CoralGables on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 01:26:17 AM EST
    was lousy at math, unless only one out of every 85 people (give or take one or two) actually pays taxes.

    Parent
    Giving credit to a Clinton is not something (5.00 / 3) (#144)
    by bridget on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 10:56:51 PM EST
    the village people know how to do after all these years of biased coverage.

    Anything good about the Clintons must be "disappeared." That's the script.

    Parent

    Anyone (none / 0) (#149)
    by cal1942 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:20:19 PM EST
    who bet on 'my friends' passed out blind drunk half way through the thing.

    I wish (none / 0) (#150)
    by cal1942 on Tue Oct 07, 2008 at 11:24:50 PM EST
    Obama would jump on McCain the next time he says General Petraeus this or General Petraeus that.

    Civilian authority controls foreign policy and the use of the military in this country.

    Does anybody have the video link to when McPain (none / 0) (#160)
    by Blowback on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 12:05:45 AM EST
    said to the the black kid that he basically called stupid about Fredy?

    Honestly (5.00 / 0) (#170)
    by IzikLA on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 02:21:30 AM EST
    All this talk about the "That One" comment and I barely noticed it.  But this comment I definitely noticed.  A young black guy asking this question and he condescendingly assumes that he hasn't even heard of Fannie or Freddie?  This one made me dumbfounded and I am not the type to cry foul.

    By the way, I was a huge Hillary supporter who felt that, for the first time, Obama truly connected and did almost everything he needed to do to make America pull the lever for him.  I say he did a great job.  Composed, eloquent, compassionate, intelligent, caring.  Finally.  I will be proud to vote for him.

    Parent

    What did you think of Obama's (none / 0) (#161)
    by oculus on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 12:24:12 AM EST
    mentioning the state of Deleware as hospitable to credit card companies?

    Mistake (none / 0) (#162)
    by andgarden on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 12:35:35 AM EST
    The right state to mention was South Dakota.

    Parent
    What happened! (none / 0) (#163)
    by lilburro on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 12:52:15 AM EST
    This was in no way a game changer.  Wonder if they bailed on the attack strategy on the McCain side, or if it was always a decoy.  Guess I don't get it.

    I was surprised to see McCain wave the white flag (none / 0) (#173)
    by Howard Zinn on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 07:34:49 AM EST
    of surrender last night.  I thought he had to force a game-changer by hammering away at Obama, trying to get him riled and defensive.  

    Neither candidate owned the debate last night.  Did anyone else get the feeling that Obama was content to just coast?  I bet Obama had prepared exhaustively to strongly go toe-to-toe with McCain, without coming across as angry or irritated.  Then when the punches didn't fly, he was happily on auto-pilot.

    Is McCain saving armageddon for next week's debate?  Or was it that Obama would surely say, "in these times of crisis all McCain can do is hurl insults instead of talking about how to fix this mess"?

    I recorded it because we were doing (none / 0) (#174)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Oct 08, 2008 at 08:17:49 AM EST
    stuff last night and I doubted that the debate was going to be a game changer.  We watched it all propped up on bed pillows.  Our little boy with us.  I did get something new out of the format.  I have a new understanding of Obama as far as speaking fluidly about his goals and ideas outside of speech.  I was very impressed with his ability to leave the podium and join the kitchen table.  My husband has still had many reservations about Obama but McCains preformance last night clarified a lot of things.  The McCain doctorine on using our troops for humanitarian purposes caused my husband to groan out loud :)  He said that Obama did a great job on that one in his opinion.  John McCain didn't have much new to offer and we all know how well the same old same old is working.

    Nashville Post Debate Thread | 169 comments (169 topical)

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