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Packing for Yearly Kos, Open Thread

By Jeralyn, Section Blog Related
Posted on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 10:59:35 AM EST
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Leaving town for five days is always difficult, even more so when it's for a blogging event for which I feel compelled to bring a camera, camcorder, voice recorder, laptop and all the attendant cords, most of which end up staying in my hotel room.

Then there's trying to wrap up all the day job duties, make sure the bills are paid that are due on the first of the month and so on.

So, you're on your own today. All topics welcome.

Update: KingOneEye has a top ten list of media do's and don'ts for those attending YKos.

< Dems Cancel Intelligence Hearing , Push for FISA Changes Before Recess | Private Prisons and Family Values >

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    More Guiliani nerve.... (5.00 / 1) (#2)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 11:38:12 AM EST
    and he's got some nerve, let me tell ya.

    In today's NY Daily News, the Ghoul is saying Democrats (and Democrats only) want a "nanny state".  True enough, but so does your party tough guy.  

    I lived under Guiliani's reign of authority in NY, and he's as big a nanny wanna-be as the rest of them.  

    That's just Rudy Cue Ball (none / 0) (#20)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 01:34:17 PM EST
    being Rudy Cue Ball.  Attack, lash out, lie, insult and defame as default settings.

    Parent
    GodDammit (5.00 / 3) (#3)
    by Peaches on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 11:41:53 AM EST
    This is gut-wretching for anyone. For fathers...I still have tears in my eyes.

    And what happened was that Jeff and I then started talking while I was doing some work. And then what happened with Jeff was -- it was about 11:30 at night, and everything was very -- I was exhausted, Jeff was exhausted, but he kept talking, and then finally he asked me if he would be able to sit in my lap. And so, forty-five minutes we rocked in silence. And the therapist told us after Jeff died that that was no doubt his last place of refuge, his last safe harbor that he felt that he could go to.

    ...Jeff, no doubt, is lying in front of the TV." And so I told her I would call her back. So I went into the house, and I couldn't find Jeff. I went to his bedroom, and the one thing I noted was that his dog tags were laying on his bed. I then went out to the porch, to the deck. He wasn't there.

    And so, then I went through the addition, and I saw the cellar door open. I could see a light on, and I caught some pictures that were laying on the floor, and in the center was his platoon picture. And I could see other pictures. So I went downstairs. My focus was on the pictures, because I couldn't understand why they were there. When I went up to the pictures, the platoon picture had blood on it. The picture of each of his sisters were on each side of the platoon picture, and then there was pictures of the family in a half-circle.

    Then I saw Jeff, and Jeff was, I thought, standing at first, until I saw the hose double-looped around his neck. I went running over there, and I pushed Jeff up with my knees. And that was the last time he ever sat in my lap. I took the hose from around his neck, and I laid him down onto the floor, trying to make him comfortable. And at that point, I tried to rub his chest, because I thought I felt some warmth there. Otherwise he was very cold. So then I went upstairs and called the police.

    Goddamn!

    link

    God Damn is right.... (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 12:06:37 PM EST
    a scene like that must be damn near impossible to recover from...those poor parents.

    It's all such a crime in so many ways.  F*ckin Uncle Sam...he ain't my uncle.

    Parent

    Thanks... (none / 0) (#21)
    by Aaron on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 01:34:58 PM EST
    ...Peachy. This is the reality of war.

    Parent
    Ow (none / 0) (#36)
    by baba durag on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 05:08:40 PM EST
    The pain is just immense, isn't it.

    Parent
    this is what they mean by improvement!? (5.00 / 3) (#4)
    by Sailor on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 11:45:14 AM EST
    According to the 45-page report released in Amman, almost eight million Iraqis are in need of immediate emergency aid with children the hardest hit by worsening conditions. An estimated "43 percent of Iraqis suffer from `absolute poverty'."

    "Children are hit the hardest by the decline of living standards. Child malnutrition rates have risen from 19 percent before the US-led invasion in 2003 to 28 percent now," it said.
    Meanwhile (none / 0) (#10)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 12:30:56 PM EST
    all that egg sucking weasal can do is snicker and act like some half drunk SMU frat boy addressing the first year pledges.

    Parent
    In addition, recent article in NYT (5.00 / 2) (#5)
    by oculus on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 11:53:57 AM EST
    states U.S. built a power plant but Iraq's government did not maintain it.  Zero improvement in supplying electricity to Iraqis from this plant.

    It was a plant that we made therefore (5.00 / 1) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 12:00:44 PM EST
    it is tainted.  We are the infidel in Iraq and nobody wants to deal with that Muslim fact, especially not General Infidel Petraeus.

    Parent
    That's likely part of it... (5.00 / 1) (#34)
    by jr on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 04:41:46 PM EST
    ...but I bet the bigger part of it is that people with the requisite technical skills have largely fled to Iran, Jordan and Syria, and the only thing we're capable of training people to do right now is shoot guns and kick down doors.

    Parent
    Tracy (1.00 / 1) (#40)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 08:47:35 PM EST
    You again play the religion card.

    Think about what you are claiming.

    If this is true, in any conflict with Moslems we must either:

    a. Let them do as they please.

    b. Take dire actions against them.

    I again say that if we can't deal with Moslems there, we can't deal with them here.

    I totally reject that.

    Parent

    Go ahead and reject it (5.00 / 1) (#45)
    by Militarytracy on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 06:44:21 AM EST
    It's the M.E., it isn't American.  Just don't go looking for any real scholars in the subject to desire your delusional company.

    Parent
    Tracy (1.00 / 1) (#48)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 09:53:54 AM EST
    So what you are saying is that the Moslems who move outside the ME are different than the ones that stay in the ME.

    And the ones who stay in the ME will always and automatically reject us as infidels and not cooperate or take advantage of any training, infrastructure improvement, etc.

    Then your argument is that the difference is the numbers of Moslems in a given area vs total area population size.  X percent of the population "good," willing to assimilate, not rigidly conservative in their faith, not suspicious about the motives of non-Moslems, etc.

    X plus N, or Y percent becomes "bad" as the higher numbers presents barriers to assimilation, rigid conservationism about faith, suspicious about the motives of non-Moslems, etc.

    That is identical to the argument that many on the far Right make.

    I reject that argument. It is too simplistic.

    Parent

    My argument is too simplistic? (5.00 / 1) (#61)
    by Militarytracy on Fri Aug 03, 2007 at 12:27:46 AM EST
    Dear me, I thought your argument was too simplistic since it fails to acknowledge that Muslims who would move to the land full of Infidels would probably tend to believe we were less tainting than those who may have never even been in the presence of an Infidel before we decided to invade their country and prove every boogieman story they have ever been told about us true.

    Parent
    It's odd how even some soldiers that I know (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 11:57:07 AM EST
    and who have the best intentions cannot accept that in Iraq they are the aggressors and the abusers forever now.  At the last going away party this past weekend everybody who was there has been away for at least a year now and they witness how horrible everything is there and they want to help to change that because America did this terrible thing to Iraq.  Our friend L will make Major while he is there.  He is Determined to do good things for the people of Iraq and refuses to accept that the window for that opportunity long passed the day we invaded.  Time heals all wounds I am told but lately I have noticed that time makes room for denial as well.

    I wonder if maybe some reasons your friend is (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 12:18:28 PM EST
    determined to do good things for the people of Iraq and refuses to accept that the window for that opportunity long passed the day we invaded

    has something to do with that America is still a country where people grow up taught that the president is a leader, an honest man dedicated to preserving freedom, and defending the constitution, the country, and it's citizens.

    They grow up taught that one of the highest honors and services they can perform for their country and their families and neighbors is to don the uniform in military service in the trust that their leaders are honorable men and women, and fight and risk their lives for those leaders and those they leave behind at home.

    In the invasion and occupation of Iraq they have been lied to and misled in the most immoral ways possible, by the President, of all people.

    By people they have been taught since birth would never let them down, would give them every bit of support possible in the name of their country, as honorable leaders.

    Parent

    Who will be the (5.00 / 1) (#37)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 06:03:45 PM EST
    Last to Die for that Man in the White House and His Lies ?
    Meteor Blades at Daily Kos today:
    Four thousand dead Americans and other Coalition soldiers will soon be in the count. Dead, in many cases, as we have seen, because of the incompetent know-it-allness of an Administration still swarming with chickenhawks.
    ...
    They are dead for lies. Futilely dead. Dead because war criminals sent them abroad fraudulently in the name of liberation, security and prevention.

    Dead because of people who waved the bloody shirt of 9/11 in one hand, Old Glory in the other, simultaneously managing to shred our Constitution and decades of international law. People whose closest brush with battle was reading the Cliff's Notes version of Sun Tzu, which they promptly forgot. People who, if this were a just world, would soon be making journeys in shackles to The Hague.
    ...
    Not to mention the dead Iraqis.

    We know how little those who lied us into this war try not to mention those dead Iraqis. To downplay their numbers. Nobody really knows how many have died. Estimates diverge wildly. Let me just say I think any count below hundreds of thousands is off the mark. Hundreds of thousands dead, still larger numbers injured or maimed, more than two million in exile, two million internally displaced. All for a pack of lies.
    ...
    If Russ Feingold's August 2005 proposal for withdrawal had been adopted, American troops would have been home since Christmas. We might already know who was the last one to die for the lies of that man in the White House and those of his pals. But for two years, the withdrawal plans of Feingold, John Kerry, Jack Murtha, Wes Clark, George McGovern, the Center for American Progress, and, and, and have been ignored. So, the skulls are stacked, American, Iraqi and others. The bloodbath goes on, and the dithering ceases not.

    With no end in sight.

    It is time for everyone who believed or still believes the lies to face it squarely and, however painful it may be to say, admit what they know in their hearts is true. The Iraq invasion and occupation has turned into the worst Foreign Policy debacle in American history.

    All for a pack of lies.

    It is time to face reality.

    It is time to bring this debacle to an end.

    Parent

    Who will be the last (none / 0) (#38)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 06:19:52 PM EST
    to believe or deny the lies?

    Parent
    No, he is a very good friend (none / 0) (#11)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 12:35:15 PM EST
    and no idol worshipper.  He is a very very charismatic guy who speaks fluent Russian unlike Condi and has a big degree in Poli Sci.  I think it's more like unreality mania as sometimes displayed by Obama about politics and Petraeus about counterinsurgency.  He really believes that if he goes out there being the most excellent G.I. Joe handing out chocolates to the kids that somehow he will single handedly atone for Abu Ghraib.  This is HIS first tour in Iraq.

    Parent
    He sounds like a good guy (5.00 / 1) (#12)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 12:44:59 PM EST
    trying to show Iraqis that not all and in fact most Americans are as bad as they think, and if so he's right, IMO.

    But I think he will be just as much of a target for Iraqis determined to regain control of their country as anyone else.

    They'll aim for the uniform... I hope he survives his tour.

    Parent

    They ended up putting him where they (none / 0) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 12:54:44 PM EST
    needed him and thought he would do the best job for us.  He is working liaison with the Brits and the Italians and he won't be in harms way as much as most soldiers over there.  He was a little unhappy at first, he wanted to be in more danger I guess.  He takes his ideals with him though where ever he goes and hopefully he will help someone along the way.  My husband shook his head though helping him pack on Saturday because he thinks Iraq will burn him and take the shine off of him, and it probably will.

    Parent
    I tried to talk to him Edger (5.00 / 1) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 12:48:01 PM EST
    I really did.  He isn't married and has no children.  He didn't have to be deployed yet, he wasn't due to go but he requested it so that it would set back the next slot needing to be filled going to Iraq out of the unit he served in here.  Everybody else in the unit is married with children and since he hadn't done a tour in Iraq yet he felt like he was getting over on everyone.  He tried to get on with MIT units and he was going to go be a humvee gunner with Iraqi forces......but his career manager wouldn't go for that cuz it just doesn't make sense to have one of your fluent Russian soldiers take one in the head in Iraq, whew.

    Parent
    I really hope he makes it through unharmed (5.00 / 1) (#17)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 01:05:57 PM EST
    And I really hope he does manage to show at least one Iraqi that all Americans are not what Saba Ali Ihsaan and Dr. Maryam see.

    Parent
    The contrast between (5.00 / 1) (#16)
    by jondee on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 01:05:26 PM EST
    Gordon Brown and Bush in a joint appearence is like that between an overgrown, ADD afflicted, juvenile delinquent and his slightly embarrased, yet still dignified, legal guardian.

    Yes (none / 0) (#18)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 01:14:56 PM EST
    Reality has an unnerving habit of refusing to be ignored.... and Gordon Brown seems to have a functioning brain.

    Brown drops 'war on terror,' redefining the fight

    When terrorists tried to blow up civilians in London and Glasgow, Gordon Brown, the new British prime minister, responded in his own distinctive way. What had just been narrowly averted, he said, was not a new jihadist act of war but instead a criminal act. As if to underscore the point, Brown instructed his ministers that the phrase "war on terror" was no longer to be used and, indeed, that officials were no longer even to employ the word "Muslim" in connection with the terrorism crisis. In remarks to reporters, Brown's new home secretary, Jacqui Smith, articulated the basic message. "Let us be clear," she said, "terrorists are criminals, whose victims come from all walks of life, communities and religions."
    ...
    Brown, it seems, has concluded that the war rhetoric employed by Blair was divisive, threatening social peace between communities in Britain, and counterproductive, making it harder to turn the British Muslim community into the security services' eyes and ears. In other words, the Brown approach would be the approach of serious crime fighters around the world these days -- community policing in which mutual trust is the cornerstone of crime prevention. In general, advocates of this approach avoid the rhetoric of war on the presumption that it only alienates the communities out of which criminals spring."


    Parent
    edger (1.00 / 1) (#42)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 09:17:55 PM EST
    I find it difficult to believe that an educated man can say such.

    What had just been narrowly averted, he said, was not a new jihadist act of war but instead a criminal act.

    The PM might just try and explain the motives. Was it money? No. It was in response to the teachings of the radical Moslems. It was an act of terrorism.

    In other words, the Brown approach would be the approach of serious crime fighters around the world these days -- community policing in which mutual trust is the cornerstone of crime prevention

    How is he going to do this?? How can he moniter the acts of a growing minority that is willing to die for a misguided belief that Islam should rule the world, and the there is no law but Shari??

    Parent

    and now, for a fit of sanity in New Jersey (5.00 / 1) (#22)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 01:55:13 PM EST
    ending their long holdout, the New Jersey authorities have finally decided to allow a limited needle exchange program to go forward, starting in four of their more-benighted cities:  Newark, Camden, Paterson and Atlantic City.

    About f'g time.

    Now if the US gov't could catch a similar bout of sanity, and maybe shut down the Wah on Drugs.

    DC Bar votes to disbar Libby (5.00 / 2) (#26)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 02:07:42 PM EST
    pending resolution of his appeal from conviction. If the conviction is affirmed, he'll be disbarred. Here's the decision, a 4 page .pdf.  Nice touch, how they quote "In re Colson".

    What's the matter with the news (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Alien Abductee on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 02:08:28 PM EST
    and what to do about it?

    A new report from the newswriters' guild (WGAE) examines some of the causes of the decline in the quality of news reporting.

    From the executive summary:

    ...Despite the growth of new media options, local television remains by far the most popular news choice for Americans. The Project for Excellence in Journalism found in their most recent report that 65.5% of the public gets news from local TV; another 28% from network TV.[1] Local newspapers are at 28%....

    The conglomerates have slashed jobs overall, converted full-timers to part-timers, and combined jobs. The result is too many conflicting demands on the few workers who are left, resulting in a lower-quality news product...

    CBS and the Disney Company have cut back on union staff significantly since 1980. Now they are trying to gut the Writers Guild completely. If Writers Guild news writers, graphic artists, producers and desk assistants go the way of all the other professionals in the newsroom, broadcast journalism may never recover the quality it once had....

    Recommendations:


    • All provided and/or sponsored video footage be required to carry a continuous, frame-by-frame visual notification of its source.

    • All provided and/or sponsored audio material be required to include a verbal notification at its beginning and/or end, disclosing its source.

    • Broadcasters be required to place in their public file a monthly report on their use of provided and/or sponsored material.

    • U.S. government agencies funding and/or producing video or audio for news broadcast be required to make all such material public and archive it online.

    and

    •   Hold public hearings specifically regarding localism and broadcast news quality in the top markets where most of the U.S. population lives.

    • Create and publicize a special public comment period and/or public hearing regarding the effect of these labor practices in newsrooms on the public interest.

    • Issue a public statement that the public interest would be served by CBS and Disney reaching amicable contract agreements for their newswriters and other news personnel

    • Appoint a commission or working group to develop standards for broadcast news quality as a public interest requirement. Include working journalists on both the national and local level, as well as industry representatives.

    • These standards could include time requirements for original news production, local coverage, political coverage, and strict disclosure requirements for paid news placement and promotion of co-owned entities. Entertainment programming should not be allowed to count toward a news requirement.

    • Re-introduce the Fairness Doctrine and require newscasters to present multiple sides of an issue.

    • Make infractions of these public interest requirements punishable by fines.

    • Require documented adherence to these standards for license renewal.
    Alien (1.00 / 0) (#51)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 10:34:30 AM EST
     
    Re-introduce the Fairness Doctrine and require newscasters to present multiple sides of an issue.

    Ah yes, almost at the end we find what the real motive of this group is.

    #  Make infractions of these public interest requirements punishable by fines.

    # Require documented adherence to these standards for license renewal.

    Yes indeed. We'll shut that nasty old FNC down.
    Just you wait and see. Hissssssss. (sarcasm alert)

    Parent

    Uhhh (5.00 / 1) (#60)
    by Sailor on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 07:17:14 PM EST
    Faux news isn't a broadcaster, their programming is on cable, not on the airwaves that belong to the people.

    Parent
    Bergman... (5.00 / 2) (#30)
    by desertswine on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 02:32:45 PM EST
    and Antonioni on the same day.

    Bergman passing :'( (5.00 / 2) (#33)
    by Sumner on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 03:13:46 PM EST
    an Ingmar Bergman clip from "The Serpent's Egg", on YouTube

    Parent
    and Tom Snyder, too. (none / 0) (#32)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 02:59:19 PM EST
    All of their passings a real loss.

    I liked Snyder's interviewing style, which was really good for the more expansive late-night time frame.  You could actually learn something from his shows.  Even Charlie Rose, when he was on CBS  at 2 am before he made it "big" and went to PBS and 11 PM, was pretty good.  

    The best?  When I was in law school one of the local stations put re-runs of "The Avengers" on at 4 am - an inspiration to study really late.

    Now all those late night hours are devoted to re-runs of O'Reilly and other news shows staffed by the kids just getting in on the network news-reading gig.

    Parent

    Holy Sh^T (none / 0) (#35)
    by squeaky on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 04:49:58 PM EST
    That is a very weird coincidence.  

    Parent
    I've posted these quotes before, (none / 0) (#15)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 12:59:26 PM EST
    and seen no response from any supporters of Bush and his invasion and ongoing occupation of Iraq and the Debacle it has created for both American troops and for Iraqis.

    With apologies to our host Jeralyn for the repetitive postings, I am reposting them here as an invitation to any supporters of Bush's Iraq Debacle to respond to these two Iraqis.

    Dr. Maryam, Iraqi Pediatric Oncologist

    Stop telling lies to yourself American. We know that your racist brutal murdering war criminal troops came from your society and reflect its values. we know that because we see how they behave and have to bury their victims. If you are stupid enough to think we feel anything but hatred and contempt for your soldiers and the country that sent them to make war on my people then you are a fool.
    As to Saddam bad though he was your country is far worse.
    Saba Ali Ihsaan, Baghdad, Irak
    The American "surge" as with everything else they have done is a failure. It's the American way. It makes no difference to me as an Iraki whether you are one of the "nice" racists who call themselves "Democrats" or one of the nasty ones who call themselves "Republicans". All I care about is that your country has its troops in my land raping its people, raping its resources, slaughtering our children, and defiling our Holy Places. The puppet government that rode in behind American tanks cannot pass the laws their American masters so desperately desire passed and is close to collapse. Now would be a good time to "make nice". But that is not the American way either. Not when sand nig*ers are involved. The Americans in Irak are reflecting their culture. Racist, callow, shallow, and seemingly unable read a map, it's just that they are a little more honest, a little bit more openly barbaric about it.

    There is only one measure of progress that matters in Irak and that is the progress in chewing the invader forces into pieces and then spitting them out. Progress on that is excellent.

    They came here as predators and now they are prey. The only thing an American understands is force, we sand nig*ers know a thing or two about that.

    I suspect I am not the only one who would like to hear responses to these two Iraqis from people who excuse and/or support the invasion and occupation....

    .....
    Additional info: A Pediatric Oncologist in Iraq would be responsible for providing medical care and treatment for Iraqi children with cancers born of Iraqi women who have been breathing depleted uranium.

    (note: Jeralyn had to delete my original comment. I inappropriately crossed a line in it that I agree with her that I should not have crossed. She has invited me to repost it minus that crossing... Thank you, Jeralyn)

    MiltaryTracy's comment here was in response to my original post.

    The Iraqi Childrens Debacle (5.00 / 0) (#47)
    by Edger on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 09:35:54 AM EST
    A new generation of Iraqis learning the benefits of Bush style freedom and democracy and liberation.

    From the UK Guardian yesterday (via Iraq Today)

    Children hardest hit by humanitarian crisis in Iraq

    The number of Iraqi children who are born underweight or suffer from malnutrition has increased sharply since the US-led invasion, according to a report by Oxfam [Rising to the humanitarian challenge in Iraq - 30 July 2007] and a network of about 80 aid agencies.

    The report describes a nationwide catastrophe, with around 8 million Iraqis - almost a third of the population - in need of emergency aid. Many families have dropped out of the food rationing system because they have been displaced by fighting and sectarian conflict. Others suffer from the collapse in basic services caused by the exodus of doctors and hospital staff.
    ...
    Forty-three percent of Iraqis are in "absolute poverty", partly because of a 50% unemployment rate. Basic services in 2003 were poor after a decade of sanctions and under-investment by the Saddam Hussein regime. But they have worsened since. The number of Iraqis without access to adequate water supplies, for example, has risen from 50% in 2003 to 70% now.

    Eighty percent lack effective sanitation, and diarrhoeal diseases have increased. Most homes in Baghdad and other cities have only two hours of electricity a day.

    Children are suffering the most, with 92% showing learning difficulty because of the pervasive climate of fear. More than 800,000 have dropped out of school, because they now live in camps for the displaced or because schools have had to be taken over to shelter the homeless.

    Around 40% of Iraq's teachers, water engineers, medical staff and other professionals have left the country since 2003.

    Iraqis are sick of foreign people coming in their country and trying to destabilize their country.
    --George W. Bush

    As to Saddam bad though he was your country is far worse.
    --Dr. Maryam, Iraqi Pediatric Oncologist

    Parent

    Edger - Enough of your BS. (1.00 / 1) (#41)
    by jimakaPPJ on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 09:10:24 PM EST
    Put down your cross and quit acting as if you care. I think you shed crocodile tears.

    As I have noted before, war is a terrible thing.

    We got into this one because of the actions of Saddam. His actions placed the President into the position that he could not trust Saddam, and even though he gave Saddam the chance to leave Iraq with family and loot, Saddam chose to stay. Why that is, is something I can not say. My guess is that Saddam, after disregarding so many UN "ultimatums, felt that nothing would be done, and my guess he thought his "Oil For Food" bribes, and the many contracts with the French, Germans and Russians would, in the end, protect him.

    The war, as the Left likes to say, with the Iraqi army was over in a record amount of time.

    So what happened after that??

    Books will be written on that point, but two facts emerge. We did not destroy enough infrastructure to convince the various power factions that we would have no BS from them. And by not putting what was left of the Army in the barracks, and paying them to remain there we spread them back into the various groups they had come from.

    As the terrorist organizations looked, they saw that the US had responded weakly, and that the Left in the US was mounting an intense attack on the President, effectively tying his hands. They quickly developed a strategy of kill a few americans, kill a lot of Iraqi civilians and depend on the MSM to broadcast the news.

    So what should have been over in a year, drags on, aided more and more by a Democratic Party that has tied itself to the position that winning in Iraq would be bad.

    Tell me Edger. How many of those you grieve for have suffered after the first year of the war?

    Think hard. It is a deadly serious question.


    Parent

    "Destroy more infrastructure" (5.00 / 0) (#54)
    by jondee on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 01:48:35 PM EST
    Straight from the mouth of another amoral coward who never recovered from 1968 and "the stab in the back".

    If only we had the political will to kill a few more kids, we could bring all these militants to heel. That about it, General?

    After the goal has sunk below the horizen, the best thing is to keep redoubling the effort.

    Parent

    General Squeaky has spoken. (1.00 / 1) (#57)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 05:21:22 PM EST


    Parent
    Wait!! It was Admiral Jondee (1.00 / 1) (#59)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 05:25:51 PM EST
    My bad.

    Parent
    If you cannot offer a response (none / 0) (#43)
    by Edger on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 10:02:24 PM EST
    to the two Iraqis above, ppj, you simply throw away any remaining integrity you might still have buried inside you by your avoidance.

    The destruction of their society and their country and the killing and the mutilation of them and their children was, is, and continues to be done with your cheering and enthusiastic support.

    As I noted the other day, you've repeatedly tried to assure everyone here that you're not a cowardly chickenhawk, ppj.

    Think hard. It is a deadly serious question.

    Lets see what you're made of, ppj. Or not made of.

    How do you respond to them.

    Parent

    edger - You're still full of it. (1.00 / 1) (#49)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 10:18:28 AM EST
    My response to them was as written.

    That it does match up with what you think it should be is meaningless.

    The cause of the war is as I have written.

    The extension of the war is as I have written. A combination of the internal terrorism acts by the Baath/Suni, various groups of Shia, foreign imports from SA, Iran and Syria, some al-Qaeda.

    All of these encouraged by the actions of some of our anti-war Left people and some Democratics. Note. No reasonable person in todays world of instant commuinication, the World Wide Webb and satellite newschannels can seriously claim that when Harry Reid, as one example, declared the war lost, his words didn't give these various grouops hope that if they just held on, they could win as the Americans were pulled out by the actions of their politicans.

    So quit using the war as a political position, Edger. Promise the Iraqi citizens, including the two you so love to quote, that you are behind the US military 100% and believe that we must stay until a liberal democracy is established and stable.

    Parent

    You don't need to justify yourself to me. (5.00 / 0) (#52)
    by Edger on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 10:43:20 AM EST
    You need to justify yourself to them ppj.

    But there is no justification left, and you are incapable of responding directly to what those two Iraqi's have said.

    The destruction of their society and their country and the killing and the mutilation of them and their children was, is, and continues to be done with your cheering and enthusiastic support.

    You have lost all integrity, and all humanity, and are so deep in denial now that all you can think of to do is make excuses, bury your head, and sink further into your denial.

    You have just shown the world what you're made of, ppj. Or rather, not made of.

    You are no longer worth responding to.

    Parent

    edger- Still can catch on, eh? (1.00 / 1) (#53)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 12:28:27 PM EST
    edger - I don't need to justify myself to anyone.

    Per you request I provided some background on the situation, how it started and how it got extended. And like it or not, more Iraqis have suffered at the hands of other Iraqis and foreign terrorists than by the US. In addition, it was, and is ongoing, during the extension by the various terrorist groups, caused by the political situation here in the US that the majority of the damage has been done.

    The sun comes up in the east every morning, the moon circles the earth and if you send a message to people you are at war with that you are going to force the pull out of our troops those same people will be encouraged to keep fighting and keep killing.

    Yes edger, it is true that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. That is if yours truly are.

    Parent

    edger - Today's toll (1.00 / 1) (#58)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 05:24:54 PM EST
    BTW - I think 67 Iraqis were killed today in two separate terrorist attacks. An unknown number were injured. How many were children is not known.

    All of these were killed by Iraqi or imported terrorists.

    Ah, The Religion of Peace, eh.

    Parent

    an interesting bit of sports trivia (none / 0) (#19)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 01:32:53 PM EST
    twenty years ago today, Sammy Khalifa, the first Arab-American to play major league baseball, played his final major league game.

    Sadly, his father was later the subject of a fatwa, issued the same day as one against Salman Rushdie, over an issue of religious interpretation it would seem.  The sad difference is that they got to Sammy's dad and killed him.

    Cool, but surely SK wasn't the first ... (none / 0) (#29)
    by Ellie on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 02:18:41 PM EST
    ... Muslim American to play in the bigs, as is claimed at the link?!?

    I have nothing to dispute it other than my surprise that a Muslim-American didn't hit the bigs till the mid-eighties.

    Given the number of African Americans who practice Islam, and given also that they comprise a substantial portion of pro-baseball at all levels, I thought this milestone would have been reached much sooner.

    Parent

    Well, I have no way of knowing otherwise (none / 0) (#31)
    by scribe on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 02:51:37 PM EST
    so I'll accept what the linked article tells me until someone can show me different.

    I just thought it very interesting in the sense that he was the first, and no one seems to notice it.  Melting pot in action....

    Parent

    Thriller (none / 0) (#23)
    by Sumner on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 01:55:38 PM EST
    1500+ inmates perform "Thriller" (YouTube)

    Update.... (none / 0) (#24)
    by kdog on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 01:57:25 PM EST
    on the tax protest by the Brown family up in New Hampshire.

    If you offer the Brown's any assistance at all, like a stick of chewing gum even, the state reserves the right to send the men with the guns after you.

    Give 'em hell Mr & Mrs. Brown...I'm rooting for ya!

    kdog (1.00 / 0) (#50)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 10:29:53 AM EST
    Come on kdog. These are people who made a lot of money and didn't pay their taxes like you, I and millions of others did. They evidently want a free ride to have all the benefits but not have to pay.

    They're moochers.

    Parent

    Kinda (5.00 / 0) (#55)
    by jondee on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 01:51:23 PM EST
    like those businesses Bush allowed to declare offshore adresses.

    But then, there's moochers and there's moochers. Right, ppj?

    Parent

    kdog (1.00 / 0) (#56)
    by jimakaPPJ on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 05:15:35 PM EST
    kdog, these are just ordinary tax theifs.

    Parent
    Obama-Hillary dust-up (none / 0) (#25)
    by magster on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 01:59:18 PM EST
    Last week, BTD had a diary about how Obama came out looking worse than Clinton in the diplomacy flare-up.  Maybe Obama should have looked worse, but there are two posts on TPM Election Central that indicate otherwise: 1) Obama gaining in South Carolina and New Hampshire:2)Bill Clinton highlighting how Obama and Hillary agree on diplomacy more than disagree (why would Bill do this if Hillary was faring better on their disagreements?).

    Hillary probably wasn't helped by all the GOP nominees taking her side.

    Oddly enough, I bet OB's purported (none / 0) (#27)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 02:08:08 PM EST
    "loss" in the dust-up would help him in the polls. Nothing like a little unfair aggression/being picked on/attack by someone else to help rally the base around the "victim."

    Personally, between HRC's Gates/DoD kerfuffle and OB, she's starting to look like a stone beeatch to me.

    But then again, I've always distrusted her and I think she's been hiding her true light from the public under a bushel basket for some time now in preparation for this run at POTUS.

    It'll be interesting to see how well she can keep control herself under the stress of a real, contested campaign...and if she'd be able to do so as POTUS.

    Parent

    Ag Subs (none / 0) (#39)
    by Gabriel Malor on Tue Jul 31, 2007 at 07:13:53 PM EST
    Peaches, this op-ed from USA Today will probably push your buttons. Key excerpt:

    In addition to boosting just a few crops, the subsidies also favor a tiny sliver of the largest farms and agribusinesses: The top 10% of recipients get nearly three-fourths of subsidy payments, while the bottom 80% of recipients divide up a scant 12%.


    Gabe (none / 0) (#44)
    by sarcastic unnamed one on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 01:51:45 AM EST
    If the top 10% grow 3/4s of the crops, more or less, and the bottom 80% grows 12%, more or less, it would seem reasonable. No?

    Merely a question, I haven't been able to easily find the appropriate data, although I imagine the top 10% could well produce 75% of the products.

    Pareto would say the top 20% would produce 80%.

    Not that I am a big fan of subsidies, just saying...

    Parent

    The Button (none / 0) (#46)
    by Peaches on Wed Aug 01, 2007 at 09:13:12 AM EST
    was pushed a long time ago, Gabe. I think the buttons stuck or broken.

    Like the Iraqi War, our economy and the role of agriculture plays in it cannot be fixed by the people in Washington. The movement has to be local and it has to begin by rejecting those in Washington, not replacing them. Its our land, air water and communities not theirs. They can't have our sons or daughters and their speculative investments in our communities has to be rejected. Local produce should be grown first for local consumption. Only the surplus should be exported or traded outside the community. It will take a new mindset. One where people identify with their community before nation and one that rejects the culture of war.

    Right now, this only exists as a fantasy in the minds of a few, while most of us argue over the tactics of a single war, never questioning our mindless devotion to an economy of war. A war on local communities everywhere for the benefit of a wasted and wasteful lifestyle for which we all suffer - oppressed and oppressors alike.

    Parent

    Packing for Yearly Kos, Open Thread | 60 comments (60 topical)

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