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Latest Bali Scandal

Another scandal at Kerobokan prison in Bali. Julian Ponder, serving 6 years for possession, while his partner and the mother of his child got one year and is back in Britain, fell in love with the British diplomat assigned to console and meet with Lindsay Sandiford, the grandmotherly woman sentenced to death. She tried to say Julian and Rachel were the ringleaders, but her proof fell way short and the Indonesians didn't believe her. They thought she took them on a wild goose chase. When she didn't deliver, she got a death sentence. [More....]

Diplomat Alys Harahap was supposed to be counseling Sandiford, and instead, she was caught snuggling up to Ponder in the infirmary. She is now suspended from her job, which means there is no one to counsel Sandiford, who may be called to the Shooting Fields within weeks.

Bali has had big terror threats recently. There is just no reason to go there. If you want to spend time at some beautiful beaches, try the Maldives. Here's some pictures. Who needs Bali when there are beaches like these all over the world, without the hellhole of a supermax prison.

Boycott Bali and Indonesia.

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    Discouraging travel to Bali (5.00 / 1) (#3)
    by Reconstructionist on Sun Feb 01, 2015 at 08:35:24 AM EST
     is one thing,  implying  Maldives is a place for those who support human rights to spend their money is not universally accepted.

    Did not imply that (none / 0) (#12)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Feb 01, 2015 at 08:08:22 PM EST
    I said the Maldives doesn't have a hellhole of a supermax prison (like Keborkan) or a shooting  field where they execute foreign drug offenders.

    There's no death penalty for drug offenses there.
    It only has the death penalty for intentional homicide or premeditated murder and only when the sentence is delivered by the Supreme Court. Also, if even a single member of the victim's family objects to the death penalty, it cannot be carried out.

    It has drug courts for users caught with small amounts, where they don't go to jail.

    Last year it granted clemency to all offenders except the most serious offenders. It implemented an "open jail" on an uninhabited island.

    A big local druglord was sentenced to 18 years, not life or death. Even he was allowed to go abroad unsupervised for medical treatment (as are all prisoners if the care they need isn't available in the Maldives.)

    Here are some surfing spots.

    Only Muslims can be citizens, but others can visit. There are human rights abuses everywhere. The point is, if you get caught with drugs, you won't be taken to a shooting field and executed.

    Parent

    There are rarely any good surfing (none / 0) (#1)
    by fishcamp on Sun Feb 01, 2015 at 07:58:31 AM EST
    waves in the Maldives.  There are always good surfing waves in Bali.  Some people prefer to just sit around while on vacations. I prefer to surf or go fishing.  It's also a much longer journey getting to the Maldives than getting to Bali.  No, I don't like the politics of Bali but I do like their waves and beaches.

    Are you (none / 0) (#2)
    by lentinel on Sun Feb 01, 2015 at 08:21:56 AM EST
    flat out saying that you would shrug off the death sentences, go to Bali and enjoy the surf?

    Parent
    lentinel, do you avoid (5.00 / 1) (#8)
    by fishcamp on Sun Feb 01, 2015 at 11:23:31 AM EST
    Texas and the other states that use the death penalty?

    Parent
    Actually, (none / 0) (#9)
    by lentinel on Sun Feb 01, 2015 at 03:25:21 PM EST
    fishcamp, and I don't say this with any sense of pride or holier-than-thou-ness, I would avoid Texas exactly for that reason. It casts a pall over it for me. Texas in particular because it seems to be a favorite pastime there. They always seem to be about to stick a needle in some guy.

    I'm not saying that I wouldn't go there if my travels took me there for some reason, and I'm sure there is a lot of beautiful scenery and a lot of good people - but I definitely would not plan to make it my vacation destination.

    I believe that Angel is from Texas - and I mean no offense by this comment.

    Parent

    yes, lentinel, I know what you mean :) (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by fishcamp on Sun Feb 01, 2015 at 03:52:48 PM EST
    And then (none / 0) (#11)
    by lentinel on Sun Feb 01, 2015 at 06:23:49 PM EST
    there is also the lurking presence of W.
    Enough reason to avoid any place on the planet.

    Parent
    Yes, lentinel, that's (none / 0) (#6)
    by fishcamp on Sun Feb 01, 2015 at 10:39:52 AM EST
    exactly what I did the three times I visited Bali in the past.  However that was a long time ago and they didn't have the problems with drugs then that they do now.  People that travel to Bali with large amounts of drugs must be aware of the death penality, but greed makes them continue.

    Parent
    Bali is far worse, (none / 0) (#4)
    by lentinel on Sun Feb 01, 2015 at 10:16:16 AM EST
    I'm sure, but we should also mention that California shares its sandy beaches and foamy surf with a horrific prisons like Pelican Bay.

    California leads the nation both in its overall prison population and in the number of prisoners in solitary confinement--about 11,000 men and women on any given day. At Pelican Bay, the state's first and most notorious supermax, the 1,500 occupants of the Security Housing Unit (SHU) and Administrative Housing Unit spend 22.5 hours a day alone in windowless cells measuring about 7 x 11 feet. The remaining 90 minutes are spent, also alone, in bare concrete exercise pens. With no phone calls allowed, and only the rare noncontact visit, these prisoners, like those at ADX and Texas' Allan Polunsky Unit, can only access the world outside their cells via their "feeding slots." And their only interactions with fellow prisoners consists of shouting through steel mesh--until the guards order them to shut up.

    More than 500 Pelican Bay prisoners have lived in the SHU in excess of a decade, nearly 80 have been there for more than two decades, and one prisoner recently marked his 40th year in solitary. Two-thirds of these prisoners are serving indeterminate stints in the hole--not because of any misbehavior, but because corrections staff have labeled them gang members or "associates."

    A 2012 Mother Jones investigation by Shane Bauer found that many of the racially charged gang "validations" were based on the prisoners' reading materials (Karl Marx and George Jackson), writings (advocating prisoners' rights or "Afro-centric ideology"), and drawings (such as Aztec symbols). "One inmate's validation includes a Christmas card with stars drawn on it--alleged gang symbols--among Hershey's Kisses and a candy cane," Bauer wrote. Others are validated on the say-so of prisoners who snitch--which until very recently was one of the only ways to get out of the SHU. The other was to die.



    A quick check with Google (none / 0) (#5)
    by fishcamp on Sun Feb 01, 2015 at 10:34:43 AM EST
    says the Maldives have a large drug problem with up to life in prison for trafficking, but I found no examples of the death penalty.  They do have several drug rehabilitation clinics for addicts.

    Parent
    Refraining from executing (none / 0) (#7)
    by Reconstructionist on Sun Feb 01, 2015 at 11:15:57 AM EST
     drug offenders might make it better than Indonesia, but it's not neceessarily the standard for what should be promoted as an civilized society. It's all relative , but flogging rape victims is an issue some might consider significant.

    no one is promoting it as such (none / 0) (#13)
    by Jeralyn on Sun Feb 01, 2015 at 08:19:22 PM EST
    But it's preferable to Bali and Indonesia which kills drug offenders.

    The flogging of the rape victim was overturned.

    Its legal system incorporates some Sharia laws, like flogging, which it mostly implements for sex offenses. It does not do amputations or stoning.

    There hasn't been an execution since 1953.

    Parent

    One flogging (none / 0) (#14)
    by Reconstructionist on Sun Feb 01, 2015 at 09:29:20 PM EST
    was not carried out in response to massive world wife pressure. You are  either quite unaware of how Maldivrs has been ruled (to call it "governed" is misleading) fo decades or intentionally defending the indefensible. Either way your credibility on this is zero.

    Parent
    Anyone reading your post was led to believe (none / 0) (#15)
    by Mr Natural on Sun Feb 01, 2015 at 10:03:52 PM EST
    that the flogging was the penalty for being raped.  That was not the case.

    Their legal system reeks.  You can google.  So what.

    Parent

    Visiting Hong Kong for a few days is a (none / 0) (#16)
    by fishcamp on Sun Feb 01, 2015 at 11:03:52 PM EST
    wonderful introduction into Asia, well worth the long flight from the US. The shopping is spectacular. Then it's only a two and a half hour flight to Bangkok, which is a strange and beautiful location, with many side trips available.  Next it's another  easy two and a half hours to Singapore and another fabulous city with many different foods and sights.  Bali is two and a half hours from Singapore and your at the beach and can relax.  Perth, Australia is another three hour flight from Bali, if you want to visit that country.  I much prefer that area for vacationing, since everything is quite close and you have the opportunity to rest between locations.

    Hypothetical: assume a female "of a certain (none / 0) (#17)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 02, 2015 at 04:54:10 PM EST
    age" may be traveling solo en route to a destination reached via Bangkok. And assume said traveler has visited neither Bangkok nor Hongkong. Also assume said traveler has visited various far east countries. In your expert opinion, if said traveler could spend a few days in either Bangkok or Hongkong, which should she choose?

    Parent
    Well, Oculus, that is a difficult (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by fishcamp on Mon Feb 02, 2015 at 09:59:28 PM EST
    question to answer.  Hong Kong offers some of the best shopping in the world.  While there are some bargains, almost everything in the new commodities category is next years stuff.  But they also have amazing antique stores.  I once needed a lens cap for a 1933 Leica camera and the store had every Leica ever made, and parts for all of them.  The Star ferry system takes you to many nearby islands, including Macau, where they speak both Chinese and Portuguese.  Hong Kong makes the best custom clothing in the Orient, with Singapore second, and Bangkok third.  They can make suits in two days.  I love Hong Kong, but only for a few days.  Bangkok, on the other hand, is an extremely crowded and frustrating city, but worth a couple of days to see the famous Buddhas and palaces.  There  are Buddhas everywhere, but the Sleeping Buddha, the Emerald Buddha, and the Golden Buddha are the most famous.  The floating gardens, and the China silk house round out my stay in Bangkok.  They have restaurants that look like produce markets, where you pick out your vegetables, and then step into another room that is lined with giant aquariums, and pick out the fish, or spiny creatures you want to eat.  Thailand has the city of Chang Mai, in the north of the country which is in the mountains and beautiful.  It is also the stop over spot on the way to Cambodia, and the famous Angkor Wat ruins.  The south of Thailand is loaded with famous and beautiful resort islands, where you can mingle with the very friendly locals.  My choice would be Thailand, the land of smiles, where everybody is always happy.

    Parent
    Oculus, I'd choose Bangkok (5.00 / 1) (#28)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Feb 03, 2015 at 12:36:39 AM EST
    hands down. I've been to Bangkok (and Phuket), and Hong Kong.  (Not alone, but I have visited Shanghai twice by myself.)

    Bangkok has a lot of character and there's tons to see and do. You can do a lot on your own, like go to the floating markets.

    Hong Kong, on the other hand, seemed very sterile and I was bored there. It's just another commercial city with no particular personality and I don't recall anything memorable about it.

    I stayed at the Shangri-La in Bangkok and loved it, huge rooms, great food and right in the center of everything on the banks of the Chayo River. Check out the photos in this booklet on their website. Solo shouldn't make a difference. I think I liked Bangkok better than Phuket, notwithstanding Phuket's great beaches.

    There's also the The Oriental, which is near the Shangri-La at least in the past, a lot of solo travelers stayed there for its cooking classes. (It's now owned by Mandarin and I don't know if they still have them.)

    There was also a really fun restaurant where for dinner, you start with a grocery cart and shop inside their attached grocery store for your meal.  (E.g., steak, fish, produce.) You take the cart to your nice outdoor table in the restaurant part of the place, and the waiter comes and asks you how you want everything prepared -- Asian, Indian, every way of preparation is offered. He take the cart, you can watch your meal being cooked outside, and then they serve it to you. There were people of so many nationalities there.

    Parent

    Didn't ask me (none / 0) (#19)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 02, 2015 at 06:22:00 PM EST
    but I say Bangkok.  I have a FB friend from Disney days who now lives there and almost daily posts the most amazing images and stories.  Have another friend who was left a house there when a rich client passed away (he cuts hair) and has been inviting me to visit.  Saving my pennies.

    Parent
    Thanks. Is your friend (none / 0) (#20)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 02, 2015 at 06:41:30 PM EST
    there permanently?

    Parent
    The Disney one is (5.00 / 1) (#21)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 02, 2015 at 08:05:05 PM EST
    true story
    Disney used to have this thing called The Gong Show.  Where employees get one minute to pitch their idea for a movie.  They may still have it, I don't know.  I went to a couple.  They are a hoot.
    Anyway, my friends pitch was, and we made all kinds of fun of him for this, was to make a movie based on the Pirates of the Carribean ride at Disneyland.  Crazy idea, right?
    Anyway they ignored him.  Later he was working at Dreamworks and someone called him to congratulate him on Disney buying his idea.  (I think you are supposed to get 5000 bucks if they like your idea).  Michael is a smart guy with a good lawyer.  He had the one minute pitch recorded and still had some of the props.  The production of the movie was well underway by this time and he sued them.  He was not allowed to reveal the amount of the settlement but he moved to Bangkok and has not worked since.

    True story.

    Parent

    Wonderful story. (none / 0) (#22)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 02, 2015 at 08:15:25 PM EST
    I remember a lunch around this time (5.00 / 1) (#23)
    by CaptHowdy on Mon Feb 02, 2015 at 08:19:51 PM EST
    where my joke about making a movie based on the Teacup Ride got a big round of laughs.  Even from Michael.

    Who's laughin now?

    Parent

    Death penalty derangement syndrome (none / 0) (#18)
    by thomas rogan on Mon Feb 02, 2015 at 06:17:35 PM EST
    Indonesia is unique in being a large Islamic country of over two hundred fifty million people which is fairly secular (i.e. not Sharia-like) and which actually has democratic elections.  I would think that American tourists would spend their money there in order to reinforce this sort of thing instead of focusing on the ten executions which took place there between 2009 and the present.
    This is also somehow reminiscent of Clinton derangement syndrome, Bush (W) derangement syndrome, and Obama derangement syndrome, all of which afflict American politics today.  Makes me yearn for the good old days of George HW Bush.

    Factoid re the Maldives: (none / 0) (#24)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 02, 2015 at 08:21:29 PM EST
    The highest elevation in the Maldives is 47 ft. above sea level. Yes, the Maldives is watching the rising sea level. The highest point is less than the highest elevation of any other country.

    The religion of the Maldives is Islam. (none / 0) (#25)
    by fishcamp on Mon Feb 02, 2015 at 09:23:52 PM EST
    All other religions are prohibited.  They are Sunni Muslims ruled by sharia ( Islamic law ).  The surf is good there for about two months every year, during the monsoon season.  Vacationers go to any of many beautiful resorts, but remain within the compound, since they are on little sinking islands with nowhere else to go.  There is no mingling with locals since they are Muslim and we are not.  They like our money but they do not like us.

    Although I walked the perimeter (none / 0) (#26)
    by oculus on Mon Feb 02, 2015 at 09:41:12 PM EST
    island which is the capital of the counntry. Solo. Too hot for the people I was with. No problem, although I was stared at out of curiousity.

    Parent
    I just want to go stay at the (none / 0) (#29)
    by Jeralyn on Tue Feb 03, 2015 at 12:43:05 AM EST
    Ayurvedic spa at the Four Seasons. But prices start at $2,600.00 a night (U.S. dollars) with a 7 day minimum, so I doubt I'll make it in this lifetime. I don't care about their religion or hanging out with locals. Since the islands do appear to be sinking, they may not be around forever.

    Parent