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Wired Releases Full Bradley Manning Chat Logs

By Jeralyn, Section Crime in the News
Posted on Wed Jul 13, 2011 at 04:14:39 PM EST
Tags: Bradley Manning, Wikileaks (all tags)
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Wired Magazine has released the full version of the instant messaging chat logs of Wikileaks suspect Pvt. Bradley Manning and Adrian Lamo.

Previously, Wired had published only portions of the logs, due to Manning's privacy interests. It's changed its mind. Why?

[I]ndependent reporting elsewhere has tipped the scale in favor of publishing. By all evidence, Manning is a figure of historic importance. Inasmuch as the conversations shed light on the personal pressures in Manning’s life at the time of his arrest, publishing the logs serves a valid news interest, and at this point we believe it will cause little additional harm to Manning’s privacy.

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    Wired Releases Full Bradley Manning Chat Logs | 27 comments (27 topical)

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    i suppose that depends on (none / 0) (#1)
    by cpinva on Wed Jul 13, 2011 at 07:24:14 PM EST
    how you define "little additional harm", now doesn't it?

    "Full version" except for redacting (none / 0) (#2)
    by Joan in VA on Wed Jul 13, 2011 at 11:04:14 PM EST
    the names of his gov insider sources, who might also be "historically important" and possibly the reason he was in isolation at Quantico. Seems that whether one has privacy rights or not is  dependent on the consequences to those who would violate them.

    Time for a pardon (none / 0) (#3)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 09:27:18 AM EST
    provided there's elocution. He's suffered enough. Even with only partial elocution. Even without elocution.

    No kidding (5.00 / 1) (#4)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 10:05:53 AM EST
    Poor kid.  He's like the walking poster child of what having no support system, no supportive family, and trying to make a life under DADT does to someone, and he's just a kid.  There will be no pardon though Jeff.  You know that and I know that.  Worse still his biggest fear of dying before he really lives is likely going to be very much a reality for him.  How could someone in intel have what can be described as three episodes that can be equated to a nervous breakdown and just be ignored.  Some commanders and some leaders just flatout SUCK!  And they stopped securing anything either while this kid is melting down.  They are just about as responsible for what happened as that punk kid, frontal lobe still not done cooking yet, Manning is.

    Parent
    He was considered (5.00 / 1) (#5)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 10:49:09 AM EST
    a p*ssy by his section sergeant, his lieutenant listened to the section sergeant, and the CO did no further investigation, and probably barely knew Manning's name.

    I met EVERY SOLDIER under my command. I had days where top would be forced to go away... day off, training, something, and an open door no appointment.

    Of course, that didn't sit well with the ringknockers or the staff weenies. Battalion CSM before he was replaced by my dear friend said, "Go for it, but EM's always lie." One of the reasons to find a different CSM, and quickly. I got the hard-drinking, belly-fat, field doggie who could run 5 miles singing I wanted, instead of Mr. Clean, no-risk-i-want-a-long-career-as-a-REMF-when-i-leave-this-outfit.

    Parent

    is there ANY organization... (5.00 / 1) (#6)
    by Dadler on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 10:56:19 AM EST
    ...less knowledgable about what it means to be a sentient human being than the military?  

    Oh that you would've been the CO to deal with my little brother when he had his life phucked by being sent on a fourth tour, which they promised him they wouldn't.  And the kid is STILL a loyal and hardworking soldier, albeint working for the NSA now, which doesn't really make me much happier.

    One more day in Tahoe being bleed by leeches, er, skeeters.  Tried the onion, all it did was make my wife sleep in another bed. ;-)

    Parent

    And I've seen soldiers get sick (5.00 / 1) (#9)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 11:14:33 AM EST
    And whole units take over all the household needs for the family and do amazing things.  Bad leaders and bad commanders though who are unfeeling uncaring self centered pukes destroy a lot when people are under extreme stress.

    Parent
    I couldn't have said it better (none / 0) (#11)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 11:23:46 AM EST
    myself without using non TL language.

    Parent
    I have no doubt you are right (none / 0) (#12)
    by Dadler on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 11:34:27 AM EST
    My problem is that because dissent is not tolerated really, and because dissent is REQUIRED to be a full human being and not simply a tool, you end up with the system we have -- where good people are almost always run over like dirt.

    I know there are good and decent people in the military.  Those who genuinely control it, however, I am sorry, still haven't a clue.

    Parent

    Some who control have clues (none / 0) (#14)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 11:42:47 AM EST
    and some don't.  It is a roll of the dice though as to what sort of commander and command environment you will get to go into combat with sometimes.  Those environments are greatly improved when we have a Dem for President because his base will go ape$hit if he tries to go all Dubya.

    My husband survived a really bad one his first Iraq tour.  But the whole damned command environment was horrible then, it didn't improve until we almost lost Baghdad because we couldn't kill enough people and bomb enough towns to get these damned people to be nice and soldiers were getting the hell out and out of this meat grinder.

    Parent

    Oh, there are ways. (none / 0) (#15)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 11:44:32 AM EST
    There are certainly ways. But just like in the business culture, dissent can often be viewed as disloyalty.

    The dissenter often finds him/herself alone a lot until the situation gets resolved.

    But then again if you're an officer, it can mean the end of a career. Just like it might mean getting fired in real life.

    One problem, and MT, is this still happening? the promotion from O-1 to O-4 is almost guaranteed based on the number of wars.

    Sigh. Part of the problem is the lack of either self-sacrifice or forced sacrifice-- a draft.

    I'm not saying we need one, but a mediocre or inferior person can rise quickly because of the attrition rate. It's the old 'keep your nose clean and get promoted.' don't make waves, move up. Make waves, well that OER just doesn't look too good. Do unconventional things, that OER looks worse.

    And God forbid you or your soldiers have beer bellies, unless you're in aviation! The big mucky mucks notice fatbodies.

    Disclaimer: I was always a fatbody who scored 300 on his PT tests.

    Parent

    Thanks for both of your persepectives (5.00 / 2) (#17)
    by Dadler on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 11:49:38 AM EST
    My rants come mostly from watching my incredibly loyal and caring and honest brother get his ace handed to him over and over again.  That he is STILL in, well, let's just say I have urged him to get out, but he is one very committed cat.  

    Again, I also know there are SOME good folks, but I really think they are closer to the bottom of the ranks.  The higher you go in any organization, as we all know, the much more likely you are to encounter company men who don't have a real Free American brain cell in their heads.

    I'm just a dipsh*t civie, though, and y'all know way more than I do, so forgive my simplicity at times.  

    I should just go to Harrah's in Stateline right now and hit the tables and stop thinking for the day.

    Parent

    Glad to share any knowledge I have. (none / 0) (#19)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 11:59:22 AM EST
    Back during the Iraq war, when DPICM was fired on Fallujah (it's exploding bomblets, and it's the only thing that looks that way when the fuse goes off) folks were claiming it was White Phosforus...even some italian television reports, and english, also. When I corrected people, I was told how wrong I was, how I didn't know anything, and that I must be a war loving baby killer. The last is a direct quote-- I won't forget that insult.
    Oh, on the Great Orange Satan, before it was the GOS, lol.

    Parent
    Just curious (none / 0) (#20)
    by Dadler on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 12:05:30 PM EST
    Is DPICM considered a cluster bomb, the type of which are supposedly banned?

    And the disgusting crap hurled at you, well, I think that's the reason I really feel and hurt for the genuinely good people in the military.  There goodness ends up turned against them.

    Parent

    Seems they aren't (none / 0) (#21)
    by Dadler on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 12:16:47 PM EST
    From my little googleizing.  Also seems the definition of a cluster bomb is pretty malleable.

    Parent
    I think only the US (none / 0) (#22)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 12:16:57 PM EST
    and Israel use it... many nations consider it a cluster munition, but each bomblet is designed to explode on impact, not lie around as a nasty surprise.

    There are even artillery-deployed mines. They have timers so you can block an area for a given amount of time, then they explode.

    But I'm certain not every fuse works...

    On a personal note, I don't have a moral problem with DPICM in general, but not in an urban environment... too many noncombatants... or a WP artillery barrage, used as screening smoke either. US doctrine has been since the 70s at least not to use WP on troops in the open, but only on equipment, like thin-skinned vehicles, bunkers, etc.

    WP grenades are problematic at best. the blast range is 35 meters, but the distance you can throw it is only 30...so around corners, into vehicles, etc.

    Parent

    Those WP grenades (none / 0) (#23)
    by Dadler on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 12:18:57 PM EST
    I don't trust them as far as I can throw them has never had more meaning.  Yikes.

    Parent
    I thought it was white phosphorous (none / 0) (#25)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 05:01:31 PM EST
    Are you talking about the stuff they were shooting out of the Apaches?

    Parent
    They admitted to it Jeff (none / 0) (#26)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 05:14:21 PM EST
    Here's one story on their admission.  It connects to the Financial Times story on it.  There was video of helicopters laying it down too.  It wasn't coming from shells in the clip that I saw.

    Parent
    Thanks for the back-check, MT (5.00 / 1) (#27)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 05:41:38 PM EST
    I was thinking of some videos specifically NOT WP that were said to be.

    I have no doubt people got burned, disfigured, and killed by it...but the intention was a smoke screen, not to burn people. It should not be used in an urban urban battlefield, unless there's a specific need to burn some buildings. But there's no good reason to burn buildings. Those should be either bombed or cleared.

    I wasn't the one on the ground, so I can't say, but...

    Parent

    I missed this earlier...sorry (none / 0) (#24)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 04:58:41 PM EST
    I don't think the promotion for O's is what is was two or three years ago.  I remember the auto promote though because we watched it go down a time or two.  It was the same for warrant officer pilots too,  Blackwater wss trying to hire so many of them and/or many just wanted out of the mess. There was a huge bonus for Capt and Majors to re-enlist too then because we were hemorrhaging in those ranks.  So they had auto promote and big bonuses.  Makes sense though, a brand spanking new officer coming in during the Bush years, and by God when their contract was up they were gone, it just wasn't worth this crap trying to keep your soldiers alive, burying them and having everyone carry on, wondering when you would be buried too.  Families back home were very upset because there was no threat.  Our family members were being killed and there was no threat in Iraq, so many soldiers got ultimatums from spouses about getting out.  I don't know if we are top heavy in commissioned officers like we are in aviation warrants.  I bet aviation is though, aviation is just flatout top heavy.  I will ask what is happening elsewhere.  We have some relationships in SF, and I don't think they are top heavy.  One kid that we know though, he was shocked when he just got back because his Lt is a West Point graduate and his SGT fought with him like crazy.  He came to talk to my husband about it, but that's what happens when lives are at stake and someone has battlefield experience and someone does not and SGTs are advisors too :)  Some just advise loudly

    Parent
    It is a very mixed bag (none / 0) (#8)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 11:11:54 AM EST
    For instance, in the civilian work world I had to put up with so much sexual harassment all the time, ALL THE DAMNED TIME. My husband had his yearly training yesterday on sexual harassment, the military is adamant about zero tolerance if people report it.  I suppose there will always be the problem with reporting it.  Unless Dubya is the President, there is much less sexual harassment in the military and very very real consequences for sexual harassment.

    Soldiers need support systems though, and when in combat zones they need really good support systems.  He had nobody and no support system, and his dad wasn't exactly okay with his sexual preferences from what I had previously read, and it sounds like before his mom got sick she took more energy from him than she ever gave.  And now she wasn't capable of much of anything at all.

    Parent

    When I was reading the chats (none / 0) (#7)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 11:02:12 AM EST
    My mom alarm kept going off.  Our daughter had some volatile teen years, boys tend to mature slower too, and reading his words had my mom alarm wailing.  It is supposed to be your family that helps you through your first big heart break.  I only had a dad then, but I remember him coming into my room and telling me that he understood that my heart was breaking but I would be okay.  He also said that he knew that I didn't want to hear that, but just know that I would feel better one day and there would be other boyfriends, everything was going to be okay.  And so, one day it was.  It is too late for me to adopt Bradley Manning though and talk him into writing a book instead after he gets out.

    Parent
    Company level and higher (5.00 / 1) (#10)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 11:22:49 AM EST
    officers and the battalion CSM are supposed to be father figures.
    if they don't know the capacities of their soldiers, their problems, the things the like, or even if they are just plain worn out, they are inferior. Asking worn out soldiers to do something but explaining that everyone is worn out, and needs to look out for each other is a simple speech. I've made it on a few occasions.

    And then in officers and platoon sergeants call, let them know that as the professionals, I expected them to TAKE CARE of their soldiers, let me know whose marriages are coming apart, who's depressed or suicidal, who has lost a parent, brother, sister... all of these give a readiness indication. They also allow you to be the mysterious commander who knows everything when you call someone in and give them compassionate leave, or a 4 day pass...

    But too many stamp collectors just use the info to motivate by dread.

    My company had barbecues, kegs of beer, family days, kids days... and I met with every soldier not just the week they transferred in, but regularly enough that I had to keep a personal roster... and I expected reports from the First Sergeant and platoon sergeants.

    But I can tell you, a lot of lower EMs hate their former first shirts and COs because of, again, acting like administrators instead of officers.

    The downside? a lot of them are 2 and 3 stars now... and a lot of folks who ran like me are out here.

    In the field, my boys excelled. In garrison? Well, I got chewed on for soldiers drinking, fighting, DUIs and so forth as much as the next CO, but I didn't automatically label someone a sad sack or a troublemaker if they looked fat, or didn't have their uniform pressed perfectly or if they cussed. I cared about field performance... warfighting.

    I'd say it paid off. But that top down punishment heavy environment is the norm, not the keg party pay day activities environment.

    Parent

    At one time I wanted my husband (none / 0) (#13)
    by Militarytracy on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 11:38:06 AM EST
    to go commissioned, it just seemed like a better deal to me.  He refused to entertain it and these were his reasons, he never wanted to fly a desk, he wanted to be an "expert" in his areas, he wanted to be able to FAIL as an officer and have that be okay.  He told me that warrant officers are nice officers, not the stupid d*ckh**ds :)

    Parent
    Heh. (5.00 / 2) (#16)
    by jeffinalabama on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 11:46:28 AM EST
    Tell him I was like the Robert Duvall character, except with more beer. My soldiers loved me.

    Parent
    Homer Simpson says: (none / 0) (#18)
    by Dadler on Thu Jul 14, 2011 at 11:51:01 AM EST
    "Mmm...beeeeeeeeeer!"

    Parent
    Wired Releases Full Bradley Manning Chat Logs | 27 comments (27 topical)

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